Our latest purchase.

[castironwidow]

So, we saw a listing on ebay that got our interest. It was just described as a dominion planer thicknessser, so we asked the seller for more information. He seemed to be unsure exactly what it was, so, hoping it would be an ES, we bought it.

As you've probably guessed, it wasn't an ES. It was a beast! It's not a DA, or a DAA, but it's huge. All it says on the plate is Dominion 16x9. I've got pictures I'm happy to share, but I can't work out how to put them on here- any help available?

The sad thing is, we can't fit it through the door, so it's going to have to go

Can anyone shed any light on it?

[jfc]

Have a look in the projects forum , theres a sticky on how to post pictures .
Or you could just email me wife material ;D

[gazza]

Hello Castironwidow (sounds scarey ;D)
Welcome to the forum

Read this
for pictures.
Surely you didnt purchase the beast without even seeing a pic of it
Post a pic and im sure the expert Scrit will help.
Cheers,
Gazza.

[gazza]

Beat to it by the perv ahem i mean Jason

[jfc]

your banned , i saw her first ;D ;D ;D

[gazza]

Ok Boss ;D ;D ;D

[castironwidow]

Okey dokey.

Cheers for the how to. Here is a picture of the beast.


I hope!

And yes, we did make the purchase without seeing any pics....

[castironwidow]

Doh! Why didn't it work?

I have uploaded them to Flickr. I clicked the image tag.
Why? WHY?
<castiron widow walks off to peruse the link for the 102nd time>

[castironwidow]

Try again.

[gazza]

Dont give up ;D

[castironwidow]

Right. I've just signed up to photobucket. I will succeed!

This is the front:


And this is the back:



Fingers crossed....

[castironwidow]

Way hay!!!!! I did it!

Whaddya think?

[colincott]

Welcome to the forum

I thought you said it was big

Thats massive

[castironwidow]

'Tis rather large isn't it? Hence having to sell it because we can't get it into the house. We'd have to remove door frames and bricks, and I don't think our landlords would be best pleased.

Such a shame, she's a glorious beastie. I so wish I could wire it up and run just one piece of wood through. Ah well, that'll teach me to buy stuff without seeing a picture first!

[gazza]

Well done.
all you need now is a couple of shire horses to move it for you ;D
Sorry i have no idea what model it is.
What size are the beds ?

[jfc]

Just take the door off , knock a hole in the wall and use it Why get rid of it if its what you need ?

Edit ; Ah get in the house explains why ;D

[castironwidow]

Cos I would lose my hall and kitchen! And that's before it even gets close to the workshop!

I am tempted though.

The beds are big- longer than my arms can reach. It's about five foot long, and overall it's about four foot wide. The machine is about four foot high. The motor and pulleys are hidden by the rather fetching "lawnmower" style cover round the back.

Lovely, eh?

[castironwidow]

Sorry, hadn't seen your edit when I posted.

Off to bed now, so I'll check in with you guys in the morning.

[jfc]

Adding the serial number and other info on the spec plate may help .

[castironwidow]

All it says is Dominion 16x9, machine number 741. Not exactly full of information, eh?

It would be good to know how old it is. We suspect that it is the foreruner to the DA series, as it seems to share castings with later models. The outboard motor suggest, we think, that the machine is earlier based on the outboard motor- it's covered by the lawnmower style guard.

[Scrit]

Because there is no model type I suspect it's the planer/thicknesser part of a Dominion Super Elliott combination woodworker. Dominion started life (at least in woodworking terms) making the Elliott combination woodworker (a rip saw, pull-over crosscut saw and overhand planer all in one). The early models starting in the 1920s were driven from overhead line shafting whilst the later ones (from the 1930s) had a single motor mounted in the middle. From that machine they developed the Super Elliott (one motor) and Supreme Elliott (three motors) combination woodworkers which always had at least a planer/thicknesser (12 x9in, 16 x 9in or 24 x 9in) and a rip saw but which also had optionally a pull-over crosscut saw, square chisel mortiser, overhead spindle, etc.

Dominions stand-alone planer/thicknessers were arranged to have the motor(s) inside the frame some time in the late 1950s but obviously the combinations couldn't do that because you'd never have been able to gain access to the motor, so they always had an external motor mounted on the base casting and driving through a long belt. In the case of the Super/Supreme Elliotts these were encased in a pressed sheet metal guard. The style of rise and fall handwheel on your machine was used by Dominion into the 1960s, so that's not much help in dating the machine, I'm afraid. One thing I do know is that Dominion certainly are known to have sold conversion kits to allow users to split their combination machines into stand alone machines.

As a point of interest this machine has lost the sheet metal pressing which covers the front of the feed roller ends as well as the thicknesser infeed and outfeed rollers without which thicknessing can be a pain to do

Scrit

[pitbull]

could be a super elliot

[castironwidow]

Hi Scrit, thanks for looking in on this one. It's the machine I pm'd you about.

Interesting idea about the combination machine thing. Would that setup use such big machines with a central motor? If so, would they have reused the motor when converting it to a stand alone machine, just remounting it off to the side? There are no obvious opportunities to mount things onto this. Would the original beds been removed and the conversion kit then mounted onto the casting?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm a little confused about how it would have worked!


I have seen smaller ones with the planer/saw/crosscut combo. They look so cramped! The similarities in size and castings to the DA PTs lead me to think that it was a natural evolution thing- ancestor to 50's and 60's machines.We were assuming that this one was just of the era where external motors and big pulley guards were the norm. I guess that at one point, the use of lay shafts declined and electric motors, which could be placed within the machine, took over.

A google search for "dominion planer" will yield pics of another one the same which has been rebuilt. Second or third result I think.

Re missing bits, there is a bit of sheet metal on the front held on by a wing nut the other one (on google) has the same part. The missing thicknesser rollers are a shame. A fabricated replacement might have to suffice, although I don't think we'll be doing that.

Incidentally, do you have any idea of it's value? Sadly, we're going to have to list the thing on ebay before the day's out- we just have nowhere to put it.

[Scrit]

castironwidow said:

Interesting idea about the combination machine thing. Would that setup use such big machines with a central motor?

Oh yes. The biggest Super Elliotts had a 5.5hp motor altthough 7.5HP motors have been seen) and came with up to a 24 x 9in planer thicknesser, a 20in rip saw and a 16in crosscut - all driven by swapping belts on that honking great motor. All the elements were bolted down onto a cast-iron bed plate and they weighed around 1.4 tonnes in 16 x 9in form whilst the 24 x 9in machines weighed in at somewhere around 1.7 tonnes. For the 3-motor Supreme Elliotts add another 200k or so. The more basic Elliotts were built-up on a sheet steel frame in later days, but the couple of earlier (pre-WWII?) models I've seen were mounted on cast bases as well. Dominion became associated with combination woodworkers between the wars, although huge 2 tonne combination machines like them were also built by other firms including Whites, Robinsons, Pickles, Cooksley, Ransomes and Wilson Brothers. Such macj#hines were once the mainstay of NCB colliery workshops and the like for so-called "maintainance woodworking"

castironwidow said:

If so, would they have reused the motor when converting it to a stand alone machine, just remounting it off to the side? There are no obvious opportunities to mount things onto this. Would the original beds been removed and the conversion kit then mounted onto the casting?

Check the price of a 5.5HP motor and you'll see why they would be re-used. Exactly how is the motor mounted? If there are no cast lugs in the machine casting then it is likely to be a conversion, otherwise it may or may not be. It's often forgotten that whilst electric drives came in around the time of WWI, but that they really only became viable with the widespread availability of ball bearings from the early to mid 1920s onwards, prior to which oil lubricated shell bearings had been used. The first British woodworking machinery firm to convert to integrated motors for their entire range was Wadkin who started the process in 1926/27. It took them 10 years to complete the task. A small firm like Dominion would not have been at the leading edge of that change but even so would have adopted attached motors by the early to mid 1930s. It was, however, not uncommon to offer lineshaft drive right up to the very early 1960s.

Possibly another way to help date the machine is to look at the brightwork. If it's chrome-plated then it's probably a post-1950 machine. Bright plating before that was more likely to be either cadmium or nickel which are both much more prone to tarnishing.

castironwidow said:

Incidentally, do you have any idea of it's value?

None. The machine is incomplete so it's hard to say

Scrit

[cnc paul]

Hey Scrit,

Great information... Have you ever thought of going on Mastermind ?



Paul