|
|
Post by Keith on Mar 24, 2008 18:00:28 GMT
I have wanted to get a spindle for a while but am stuck for space. I've had a look a some combi machines but ruled them out so now I've decided to get one and re-jig the workshop to get it to fit.
I've got about £2500-3000 to spend, but I want a power feed and enough left over to get some tooling.
I quite fancy the Hammer F3, the sliding carriage is built in to the table so it has a smallish footprint. It looks a decent machine, the internals, I'm told, are the same as the Felder 500, so it looks a good bet.
Has anyone got one, or can recommend something in the same price range.
TIA
Keith
|
|
|
|
Post by jfc on Mar 24, 2008 18:22:56 GMT
Keith i know you probably want a shiney new one but i havnt looked back since getting my little Bursgreen . They are built like brick out houses and dont take up alot of room . Mine is smaller than my record router table , in fact i think it's even smaller than the trend router table but you wont move it like one of those 8-)I got mine (braked) for around £500 - £600 i think ???and thanks to Mooretoolsplease got a powerfeed second hand aswell . This let me spend more money on tooling  I think a second hand spindle and new tooling is a better way to go ........ and they where right when they said a thousand pounds worth of tooling is just the start of the slope  |
|
|
|
Post by Keith on Mar 24, 2008 18:35:14 GMT
Well Jason you have me well and truly sussed ;D I don't want a load of hassle getting it working properly, I've bought three second hand machines this year, saved a lot of money, but it has taken time to get them all working properly. Plus I am pretty scared of the things, the one I had many years ago was poor and scared me ****less using it. Plus it didn't give a good finish. I fancy a tilter too ;D Did you get yours off the Bay? Hey;.....I'm a full member ;D |
|
|
|
Post by jfc on Mar 24, 2008 18:44:15 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by woodworker on Mar 24, 2008 19:55:09 GMT
Keith, Sorry to disappoint, but the Hammer is not the same internals as the 500 series. The 500 is a rework from the 700 series 310 combi range. Tilting spindle, newish...... power feed, tooling  . Suppose it's what tooling your looking at. My tooling all together costs more than the machine , and I'm on a Felder 700Z ;D |
|
|
|
Post by pitbull on Mar 24, 2008 20:01:45 GMT
this is my £1000 moulder, from an auction works perfect.  |
|
|
|
Post by jfc on Mar 24, 2008 20:30:20 GMT
He he , lets all show Keith pictures of working bargin spindle moulders just to wind him up ;D  ;D |
|
|
|
Post by pitbull on Mar 24, 2008 20:37:49 GMT
If I had another I would. ;D I got an RZ surface planer for £750 a 4 knife block one aswell.  which was funny as I thought it was a twin knife block, so I bought a new set, put them in. Switched on the machine, was well pleased with the smooth finish rather than the comb look, but when I looked at the knives, they had big dings in them like the combs I had just replaced. DOH that was another set of 460mm knives I had to order. You sure notice it when having them sharpened |
|
|
|
Post by Keith on Mar 25, 2008 7:54:54 GMT
Woodworker, in which case do you know if the Hammer K3 saw has the same internals as the Felder 500?
I know a spindle is a slope, Jason has warned me to watch out for bancrupcy once I start buying tooling.
Pitbull and Jason, thanks for the pics, I 'm coming to the conclusion second hand may be best, I just fancied something shiny and new for once.
|
|
|
|
Post by jfc on Mar 25, 2008 16:35:47 GMT
I'm not sure shiney and new would be a good thing on a workhorse like a spindle moulder . Although i have never used a new one the ones i have seen dont really look very robust . I could be wrong of course .
|
|
|
|
Post by woodworker on Mar 25, 2008 18:03:08 GMT
Woodworker, in which case do you know if the Hammer K3 saw has the same internals as the Felder 500? Keith, The 500 series came about when Felder decided to have something between the 700 series and the Hammer range. Felder used to make a combi 700-310 which was a full 700 but with the smaller 310mm P/T. They ditched this over a year ago now and rebranded it the 500, and added some stand alone machines based on the 700 with some costcutting. The 700 series has all been updated recently to move the 700 series more into the professional workshop market, and the 900 & Kappa for mainly production shops. The 500 series has more derived parts from the 700 series, whereas the Hammer parts are just designed literally for the Hammer. I looked into all this some ago, and from experience with other owners realised they just aren't the same machine in another skin. Wolves in sheep's clothing terminology springs to mind ;D. IMHO Felder make some good machines, but their customer services is very poor, and this matters a lot if your a pro. |
|
|
|
Post by pitbull on Mar 25, 2008 18:16:37 GMT
I know what your on about, having everyones hand me downs, that why with the money saved I bought a new and shing TESH tenoner |
|
|
|
Post by Keith on Mar 25, 2008 18:24:36 GMT
Thanks for all the replies, looks like the shiny new toy is out then  Has anyone got a tilting spindle, how do you find it? I imagine it is going to be a lot harder to get a second hand tilting SM  Is it much of an advantage? |
|
cadas
Full Member
Posts: 107
|
Post by cadas on Mar 25, 2008 18:43:06 GMT
I'm going to throw a spanner the other way.
There are loads of older machines out there which are ten times better than the new stuff..........but, unless you know what you are lookign for and know how to make it works and operate it afterwards I would still consider the new stuff.
I have got several machines cluttering up the basement that I bought some time back that seemed cheap (anyone what a cooksley planer thicknesser), but it is only now, some ten years on that I feel confident buying something green and heavy that I know I can fix (but I still end up on here asking questions all the time)
A new hammer may not have the durability of a Wadkin, but it will certainly do what you need it to for several years and if it breaks you know where to go to get it fixed asap. Plus, you have a dealer who can set it up for you so you know it is right, and then help you through the first couple of jobs till you get confident with it.
Plus if you are trade, there are accounting advantages to buying new rather than cash off ebay
|
|
|
|
Post by woodworker on Mar 25, 2008 19:48:15 GMT
Thanks for all the replies, looks like the shiny new toy is out then Has anyone got a tilting spindle, how do you find it? I imagine it is going to be a lot harder to get a second hand tilting SM Is it much of an advantage? I'm on my second tilter, and I wouldn't go back to a fixed again. The tilt gives you so many extra options just with a standard rebate block alone . Just make sure it's a rear tilting one, so you can use a powerfeed. And a tilting router spindle to go with it.................................. ;D . |
|
|
|
Post by Keith on Mar 25, 2008 22:59:55 GMT
I'm going to throw a spanner the other way. There are loads of older machines out there which are ten times better than the new stuff..........but, unless you know what you are lookign for and know how to make it works and operate it afterwards I would still consider the new stuff. I have got several machines cluttering up the basement that I bought some time back that seemed cheap (anyone what a cooksley planer thicknesser), but it is only now, some ten years on that I feel confident buying something green and heavy that I know I can fix (but I still end up on here asking questions all the time) A new hammer may not have the durability of a Wadkin, but it will certainly do what you need it to for several years and if it breaks you know where to go to get it fixed asap. Plus, you have a dealer who can set it up for you so you know it is right, and then help you through the first couple of jobs till you get confident with it. Plus if you are trade, there are accounting advantages to buying new rather than cash off ebay Thanks Cadas, I have to say this makes a lot of sense. So the shiny new toy could be back in the frame. |
|
|
|
Post by jfc on Mar 25, 2008 23:27:23 GMT
But less money to spend on tooling  Cadas has just posted about spending thousands on tooling just to make windows . Dont think you can get the tooling cheap on ebay either cause i will be bidding against you ;D No , seriously some of the tooling on there goes for more than it is worth once the postage is added . Ive had my spindle for just over a year now and the money i have spent on tooling is well over what you are looking to spend on a spindle . |
|
|
|
Post by modernist on Mar 25, 2008 23:53:20 GMT
I would definitely go for the tilting spindle because it not only makes much more use of any cutters you have but it's also a lot quicker.
In a word versatility.
Brian
|
|
cadas
Full Member
Posts: 107
|
Post by cadas on Mar 26, 2008 5:45:07 GMT
You buy the toling you need, a hammer euro block with standard set of cutters will start you off, plus an expanding slot cutter.
Didn't the Jet spindle moulder get a good write up?
|
|
|
|
Post by nickw on Mar 26, 2008 8:15:13 GMT
I recently needed a custom set of cutters made that wouldn't quite fit square-on on a standard blank. By tilting the profile the excellent guys at Tewkesbury Saw were able to fit it onto the blank, tilting the spindle allowed me to compensate for this. The alternative would have been to make a false bed/fence, but that would have been a lot more faff.
|
|
seang
New Member
Posts: 9
|
Post by seang on Mar 26, 2008 14:05:20 GMT
JFC, Nice sliding table addition, might I inquire as to where you got it and how much it was? Keith - sorry for the hijack, if it helps I can post a pic of my spindle moulder too  Sean |
|
|
|
Post by jfc on Mar 26, 2008 14:26:52 GMT
Hi Sean , I got it from Axminster tools but it's not listed in the new catalogue  . Thier number is 0800 371 822 . It's the tenon table for the AW30s 3HP part 100123 , it was just over £100 . |
|
|
|
Post by salvage on Apr 29, 2008 9:25:34 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by modernist on Apr 29, 2008 21:28:43 GMT
Interesting - I havn't seen that before.
Despite the comments above I think the Hammer moulder mechanicals are sound and have been fine in practice.
I wouldn't agree with the choice of a universal block and cutters though. I think you are better off with a good TC rebate block and a variable groover which are avaiilable at a good price from Hammer. I think they are rebadged OMAS which cannot be bad but someone may wish to confirm/deny that.
Brian
|
|
|
|
Post by blacksheep on May 1, 2008 6:31:13 GMT
What the hell is that? It looks fantastic. Anybody ever seen or used one? How much is it? Phil |
|
I think a second hand spindle and new tooling is a better way to go ........ and they where right when they said a thousand pounds worth of tooling is just the start of the slope 
. Suppose it's what tooling your looking at. My tooling all together costs more than the machine 
which was funny as I thought it was a twin knife block, so I bought a new set, put them in. Switched on the machine, was well pleased with the smooth finish rather than the comb look, but when I looked at the knives, they had big dings in them like the combs I had just replaced. DOH that was another set of 460mm knives I had to order. You sure notice it when having them sharpened
Is it much of an advantage?
Cadas has just posted about spending thousands on tooling just to make windows .
. Thier number is 0800 371 822 . It's the tenon table for the AW30s 3HP part 100123 , it was just over £100 .