MDF

[jake]

Poll prompted by a discussion I had with someone recently. I have a respect for MDF, in its place (e.g. for painted built-ins or veneering etc). I know many hate and despise it, not helped by the Tommy Walshes of this world, I suspect. It seems to have become emblematic of a bit of hideous snobbery for some, which bemuses me a bit. It does what it does well - I wouldn't use it for a jewellery box - well, I wouldn't do that because I don't have any jewellery to want to build a box, let alone loads of them, but that's by the by. So, I want to know the truth, as revealed to me by the poll above.

PLEASE DON'T WASTE YOUR VOTE.

Jake

[engineerone]

i agree, as do a number of people with whom i have communicated.

for instance on really large flat surfaces, it is much more stable than solid, and can be veneered with exotics.

older woodworkers used cheap woods which they then veneered, but they were less stable. hence the availability of re-veneering work for restorers these days.

why build in bookshelves out of solid when most cannot be seen???

in the right place and taking account of its strengths and weaknesses, it is a valuable resource which allows us to use more difficult to obtain woods in places which show them off to their best value. without wasting them/

paul

[paulchapman]

Excellent stuff used for the right purposes. While some people seem to class it as rubbish or a DIY product, I think it's true to say that some of the World's top cabinet makers use it, for example as a substrate for veneering.

I use quite a lot of it - particularly for jigs and things. Even my workbench is made from it. It's surprisingly hard-wearing - this is how the bench looks after about 10 years of hard use



Difficult to know how I'd manage without MDF Although working with hard woods is much nicer

Cheers

Paul

[jake]

It's pretty amazing how well that top has worn - even the bench dog holes don't look frayed around the edges. It's not somewhere I would have thought of using it, but seeing that, I kind of wish I had - not so pretty but what does that matter (I can rarely see the surface of my bench anyway). It would be nice to have a flat bench that you could rely on having stayed flat without having to think about it (given proper support and fixings, naturally).

[paulchapman]

jake said:

It's pretty amazing how well that top has worn - even the bench dog holes don't look frayed around the edges.

Yes, I've been equally amazed I originally built it as a temporary bench until I had the time and money to build a "proper" one. But I've been so pleased with it, I think I would build the same again.

I use the Veritas bench dogs in those holes almost every time I use the bench and I fully expected them to become elongated, but they haven't.

It's built from three layers of 18mm MDF, individually lipped and then glued together and it's remained dead flat. I give it an occasional polish with Liberon Black Bison. And it's not always as tidy as that - I usually can't see it under all the stuff ;D ;D

Cheers

Paul

[Alf]

I'm trying to work out how best not to waste my vote. On the whole I'd say it has its place - as a veneer substrate it seems hard to beat. But you can't plane its surface - what if Paul's bench top had been slightly out of flat when he glued it up? What could he do? It also has a terrible effect on embryonic woodworkers - allowing for the slings and arrows of wood movement goes out of the window. Fundamentally the amount of dust it creates is what really kills it for me as a material. So I fully agree it has a place, but equally I hate it.

Votes on what I should therefore vote are welcomed.

Cheers, Alf

[jake]

I wasted my own vote, partly because I won't be ordered not to, not even by myself, but mostly because I dislike brown stuff so much that I had to vote for 'Chippendale was an idiot' -which is very unfair, as he was just doing (with considerable skill) what people would pay him to do.

I'd say waste your vote however you best please. I was hoping a stupid poll would prompt some slightly more sensible debate.

[wizer]

I don't like it, but I have (and will) use it a lot. It's cheap and versatile.

I recently had to smash this up



Every piece of it was MDF. I was surprised not to find a single bit of solid wood. Doors, Mouldings, shelves, everything MDF

[jake]

Mimicry like that makes me cringe a bit (quite a lot), I think there are much more honest ways of using it. Even those mouldings were MDF - they look like they are planted on?

Still, it must have been quite nice to put that thing out of its misery.

[jfc]

In my opinion MDF is great , having a material with little movement that you can carve and shape into what you like without having to worry about grain direction cant be bad .It gets over the problems of having to join timber in the case of wardrobes when all the customer would do is call you back at the slightist hint of movement . I quoted for a solid oak wardrobe once and it came out at around 12K . Veneered MDF was 2k , gues what one the customer went for .
I dont think discounting it as a material is snobery i think it is stupidity


All hail MDF i say ;D


MDF at its finest

[wizer]

its still in the skip & i can't help but grin when i pass it. Mainly because it was taking up space in my workshop.

I salvaged the glass, mirrors, hinges & locks tho

[dom]

When i started in this carrer, I swore that MDF would not pass my door.



Fat chance

[Sparky]

"touching it makes you feel stupid then die."

Who comes up with this? Poetic in its own way

Peter

[jake]

Ooh, my favourite emoticon!

If you like it, vote for it :roll

[colin]

It has its uses.

Regards

Colin

By the way, why can I not use smiley's?

*MOD EDIT*

<<< Do you see that?
Have you installed/uninstalled anything lately?
Changed any settings in your browser?
Can you see other images/emoticons on the internet from other sites?
What colour are your socks?

[Alf]

jake said:

I had to vote for 'Chippendale was an idiot' -which is very unfair

Not really - bloke was flat broke when he died so he couldn't have been the brightest.

Cheers, Alf

[jake]

It's a joke Colin, don't worry about it.

Or, if you just can't see them, you're in quick reply.

[paulchapman]

toobyefore said:

But you can't plane its surface - what if Paul's bench top had been slightly out of flat when he glued it up? What could he do?

That's a very good point, Alf. When I glued up the top I remember using lots of curved cauls to both even out the pressure from the many G cramps and to ensure that the top was as flat as possible. I planned it out quite carefully but guess I got lucky as well

However, the point about planing also applies to the edges. I can't stand leaving the edges of MDF as they are and invariably lip them with solid wood, particularly if I'm making doors. I like to be able to get the fit "just so", and to be able to plane off a whisper to get the fit right. But I even do it when it's not necessary, like with this shooting board



That's the other good thing about MDF. If I want to make a jig, there always seems to be a piece or two knocking about in the scrap box that will be suitable, so it costs nothing. I think MDF is perfect for jigs in general, like this adjustable trammel for the router



For me it just seems to be so versatile and the quality is very consistent - provided you buy it from somewhere where they store it flat. Plywood, by comparison, is often rubbish unless you can find somewhere that sells good stuff - but then it's expensive

I agree, however, about the dust. I love the versatility of MDF but hate using it.

Cheers

Paul

[jake]

jfc said:

MDF at its finest

That's impressive, Jason.

It will be interesting to see how long it lasts, in the long term I mean. Will they be venerating C20/21 MDF like we do C19 slow-grown pine?

[jake]

Like, I've had all my MDF stripped and varnished and it looks like, wow! They'd stuck all this horrid oak veneer over it, funny Elizabethans.

[jfc]

;D

It's lasted around 7 years and last time i was there it hadnt even cracked . Its all 18mm exterior MDF glued together with cascamite and screwed . From memory it took about two weeks to make , i think that was one of the first jobs i had in the workshop .

[Scrit]

Jake

It is a modern material for modern times. It has some environmental credentials, too, in that a very large percentage of the original tree goes into either the board, or making the board (boiler fuel, etc) and in any case the timber comes mainly from sustainable resources. Downside is that currently nobody knows how to recycle it.........

It has its' uses. As a substrate for flat panels it's pretty much unbeatable - I feel that Chippendale's veneerers would have killed for it. As a basic material for curved veneered laminations it is also exceptional (as demonstrated by JFCs piece).

So whilst I voted for it I did so with my tongue firmly in my cheek being involved as I am in a major oak panelling job

Scrit

[engineerone]

i think there is another thing that people tend to miss.

using mdf is so easy it kind of draws people into making things for themselves be it a simple box for the kids toys, or some shelves for storage.

then a couple of years later, a lot of people think i would like to make something better and gets them into making things out of real wood. it is i guess the approach i took this time round.

it is certainly better for many circumstance than ply, particularly the majority of ply that is available to the general public. not least the cost performance ratio is outstanding.

people want to learn woodwork, but with no school training, then starting out with real wood is daunting and expensive so mdf allows a cheap entry point.

paul

[jaco]

Paul (the Chapman)

Nice show piece, bit of a waste of space really, but then i suppose SWMBO can decorate it with flowers ........... pretty little Daisys in each hole ............
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Now, show us the real workbench!

[jaco]

I use MDF for jigs.
It is an extremely good stable product, with exceptions.

We recently imported MDF with melamine on the one side from China.
It tends to warp if the melamine has not been pressed correctly.

The other thing is, just keep it very far away from water.