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Post by mrgrimsdale on May 4, 2008 7:34:45 GMT
how do you hold a wooden jack plane? Does anyone have any specific ideas? Were you ever 'told'? Is there a trad established way?
Might seem like a silly question but I'll explain why I'm asking, when I've done the snaps.
cheers
Jacob
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Post by tellurian on May 4, 2008 8:35:42 GMT
how do you hold a wooden jack plane? Does anyone have any specific ideas? Were you ever 'told'? Is there a trad established way? Might seem like a silly question but I'll explain why I'm asking, when I've done the snaps. cheers Jacob Err, with your hands?  Sorry, couldn't resist.  ;D |
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tommo
New Member
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Post by tommo on May 4, 2008 8:40:23 GMT
A couple of squirts of grip fill ;D Clean the wax off first of course!
Is it left hand position you are referring to Jacob (Provided you aren't a kak hander that is).
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Post by hookie on May 4, 2008 9:26:24 GMT
how do you hold a wooden jack plane? Does anyone have any specific ideas? Were you ever 'told'? Is there a trad established way? Might seem like a silly question but I'll explain why I'm asking, when I've done the snaps. cheers Jacob Any hndles on it J? Or is it like a Kronov plane? |
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Post by hookie on May 4, 2008 9:27:29 GMT
I think that should bee Krenov..
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Post by Alf on May 4, 2008 9:33:43 GMT
As far as I'm aware, the established, traditional way is like this:  Unless you're using it as a jointer, when you'd do this (yes, I know this is a jointer I'm using as a jointer - just "stock" pics here):  C'mon then, show us how you hold it with a rod then... ;D Cheers, Alf |
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Post by mrgrimsdale on May 4, 2008 10:22:05 GMT
That's spot on Alf (AFAIK) but it's about facing a board, not edging.
Sorry I'll explain later. Just doing my homework for an OU course. I may be some time.
cheers
Jacob
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Post by engineerone on May 4, 2008 11:49:07 GMT
i notice the knob just above alf's hand is that a whacking point, or was it originally a handle position??? i am sure i read or was shown that in fact you hold the top when on the width of a board, and for some reason i seem to remember being told to have the palm to the front. would think that is quite sore making after a time, but interesting what stays in your brain even if it useless ;D actually i have recently found in using my LN bu's they are not as comfortable in the long run as i had hoped. but since i have mangled hands some of that must be to do with it. i find that the outside of the palm of my left hand rubs at the front on the metal wing, so maybe i need a longer front handle. at the rear my cranked little finger gets in the way, and so makes the shape of the rear not right either. not a complaint about manufacturing, just a reminder that there is no such thing as a perfect handle. paul |
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Post by Scrit on May 4, 2008 12:35:08 GMT
I hold it with the left hand across the front of the plane, fingers over the right side. The left thumb is either wrapped over the left side of the plane or sometimes just popped into the throat. And I find the hand hold less comfortable that holding a metal (Stanley) plane. I also find Transitional wooden/metal composites more comfortable.
How do you hold yours?
Scrit
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Post by engineerone on May 4, 2008 12:39:34 GMT
AND THE PLANE  ;D paul |
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Post by Alf on May 4, 2008 14:46:45 GMT
Crud. Sorry, I checked the preview and the first pic showed, but now it's gone - I'll wander back and correct it. Anyway, that's the non-edging, relevant one. And yes, Paul, that's a strike button. Cheers, Alf |
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Post by mrgrimsdale on May 4, 2008 17:39:59 GMT
Scrit & Alf both confirm what it's taken me some time to work out! I hadn't thought about it at all until I saw this odd snap in Chris Schwarz's bench book:  Looks very odd. Then I saw this in "Elementary Carpentry & Joinery" (evergreen's recommendation):  Also odd - looks like two right hands, very handy. But in fact the left hand is OK. So then I checked in the bible "Joinery & Carpentry Vol 1" Corkhill, Lowsley and co and saw this  Very clear, same as 2nd photo, and old beardy photo 1 more or less the same but left handed (posing for photo?) But the clincher (plus Scrit & Alf) is this old plane. Ebay £2 plus post.  It's obviously done thousands of hours of work. The sole has been replaced and is worn out already, and has had at least one new mouth, The handle has been loose and screwed back on. Its lost thickness and is tapered end to end. The nose and the wedge are hammered. But most telling is the pattern of wear imprinted by some horny old hand over many years of hard work:   And the thumb print is really deep  You can feel 2 hollows, the deep one you can see and a shallower one just above, where a 2nd position must have been used less often But it's got a nice thick new blade (S Ashton Sheffield) and a heavy cast cap iron. Makes you wonder how many blades he got through. And why he kept this knackered old plane in working order. So I sharpened it and set up the blade and guess what - it cuts really badly. This is probably due to the deeply hollowed front end of the sole, and the convex cross section of the back part. At least I now know quite definitely how to hold the thing. cheers Jacob |
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Post by paulchapman on May 4, 2008 17:53:37 GMT
All you need now, Jacob, is a bowler hat ;D Cheers Paul |
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Post by Scrit on May 4, 2008 18:21:58 GMT
..... and a full set (beard and whiskers). Plus a natty maxi apron, of course. Does anyone here actually wear a waistcoat in the shop any more?
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Post by engineerone on May 4, 2008 18:38:31 GMT
waistcoat, the only people who wear those now seem to be those who can actually afford made to measure ;D if you try the two ideas of holding the front, the one where the thumb is nearer the blade is actually for me anyway more comfortable, less risk of rsi i think cause your arm is kind of straight and not bent at a wierd angle. certainly for me it is more comfortable with the heel of the hand at the front of the plane paul |
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Post by hookie on May 5, 2008 6:53:07 GMT
Button on th front is four hitting with a mallet when you remove the blade. grab plane in your lef fist with you thumb in the wedge pulling up a bit, then hit front button light smack with mallet. Adjust the blade by hitting back of the plane.
Just found firefox has spell checker! Great four me.!
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Post by Alf on May 5, 2008 9:15:45 GMT
Flippin' 'eck, Jacob - I thought I had a few "well-loved" old woodies, but that one's extreme! I've had moderate disagreement with BugBear over the years as to whether this sort of thing is really wear from the horny-handed sons of toil of yesteryear - or whether they deliberately did a bit of ergonomic tweaking. I'm happy to believe the former, but if it's so in this case, cripes, there's a case for someone needing a pot of Neutrogena... I imagine the maker's name is long gone...? As for waistcoats, as a firm believer in following the guidance in the old books, I don waistcoat, tie and whiskers every time. Doesn't everyone? ;D Cheers, Alf |
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Post by mrgrimsdale on May 5, 2008 9:37:01 GMT
Flippin' 'eck, Jacob - I thought I had a few "well-loved" old woodies, but that one's extreme! I've had moderate disagreement with BugBear over the years as to whether this sort of thing is really wear from the horny-handed sons of toil of yesteryear - or whether they deliberately did a bit of ergonomic tweaking. I wondered that too. But there are shallower wear marks which you can't quite see, but can feel, which'd represent very fine tweaking, if tweaked. Then the rest of it is very worn with no sign of 'care' beyond the necessary, though it has been linseed oiled, but the old chap was probably permanently soaked in it himself Name on blade S Ashcroft Sheffield on cap iron Partridge, name on wedge T Davey presumably the/an owner If you had been planing away for hundreds of hours and days like T Davey you'd soon end up with orrible orny ands too! Cheers Jacob |
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Post by Keith on May 5, 2008 12:27:50 GMT
Of course if they had had Tormeks and waterstones in those days, they would have been able to modify their grip, as the blades would have been a lot sharper.
Keith, trying not to bite his tongue, which is firmly in cheek, as he ducks for cover ;D
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Post by evergreen on May 5, 2008 13:45:54 GMT
I'm with Alf on the subject of appropriate attire. I'm shocked to think that some people may no longer be wearing collar, tie, waistcoat and bowler in the workshop. How degenerate.
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Post by Scrit on May 5, 2008 14:25:11 GMT
...... there's a case for someone needing a pot of Neutrogena... Neutrogena wasn't available in those days, instead cracked skin was dealt with by the appliance of sheep wool fat (lanolin) or for softy southerners Vaseline, a later introduction. I still use Mitchell's Wool Fat Shaving Soap because lanolin (wool fat) is naturally hypoallergenic and bacteriostatic as well as being water repellant, fire-retardant, rust-inhibiting and having anti-fouling properties (very important not to let barnacles get a purchase on one's chin, y'know) As for waistcoats, as a firm believer in following the guidance in the old books, I don waistcoat, tie and whiskers every time. Doesn't everyone? ;D No, but I still wear a chippie's "pinnie", despite some of the comments! (In fact, they actually do keep your clothes cleaner, and if folk want to call me an old fart I might as well act the old goat, too.......) Of course if they had had Tormeks and waterstones in those days..... I seem to recall learning to sharpen on a huge 5ft Wouldham hand cranked waterstone where the sandstone ren in a cast-iron water bath. My recollections from the sixties are that they were still around even then in smaller shops (I can recall at least four shops I visited, excluding where my father worked, which all had them). Parry's certainly offered them as late as 1970 in their catalogues. With the demise of the 1 AP (Apprentice Power) motor these would have fallen into disuse, methinks. All the Tormek is is a modern motorised, miniaturised version of same. Scrit |
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Post by engineerone on May 5, 2008 16:06:52 GMT
as a development of this thread, is it sensible to use a shooting board for edge cleaning?? and if so what is a sensible length. obviously in general you only edge clean for joining boards together, otherwise you are finishing. is 24 inches too long??? have tried again using the wooden plane jack with my palm facing the front of the plane, and find it much more comfortable than the way in which alf shows.  paul |
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Post by Alf on May 5, 2008 17:59:21 GMT
Blimey, Scrit, never even thought to mention the apron - I thought that was a given. Anyone is welcome to call me an old fart for wearing one if they like. Just best not do so within an arm's length unless they want to take their ears home in a bag... ;D
Cheers, Alf
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Post by woodyew on May 5, 2008 18:22:56 GMT
...... there's a case for someone needing a pot of Neutrogena... Neutrogena wasn't available in those days, instead cracked skin was dealt with by the appliance of sheep wool fat (lanolin) or for softy southerners Vaseline, a later introduction. I still use Mitchell's Wool Fat Shaving Soap because lanolin (wool fat) is naturally hypoallergenic and bacteriostatic as well as being water repellant, fire-retardant, rust-inhibiting and having anti-fouling properties (very important not to let barnacles get a purchase on one's chin, y'know) <snipped> Scrit Vaseline? nah, far too slippery (ooh er Matron) Us soft southerners 'used' to use Fullers Earth cream. I also wear a pinny woodworking(and got sniggered at, but not sure if it was because of the pinny  ) |
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Post by Scrit on May 5, 2008 19:02:06 GMT
Vaseline? nah, far too slippery (ooh er Matron) Us soft southerners 'used' to use Fullers Earth cream. If you've never shaken the hand of a sheep shearer you may be surprised if you ever do because they have really soft skin I also wear a pinny woodworking(and got sniggered at, but not sure if it was because of the pinny ) Could have been the colour, or possibly the frilly bits round the edges, mind......... Scrit |
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