|
|
Post by engineerone on May 6, 2008 15:50:50 GMT
following on from the holding a woodie, i need to make a new wedge for a couple of mine. colin cott was kind enough to let me have the piece of sycamore the original is sitting on. anyway the question is why are there two tapers on the bit you can see, i assume it is for the sake of attractiveness, cannot see any real purpose  any knowledgeable comments please   paul  |
|
|
|
Post by Scrit on May 6, 2008 17:26:50 GMT
The outermost taper(s) sit in the tapered grooves in the body of tyhe plane. They are longer and thicker for strength. The inner taper is shorer and steeper presumably to allow greater clearance for planings inside the throat of the plane
Scrit
|
|
|
|
Post by engineerone on May 11, 2008 18:52:05 GMT
i spent an hour or so yesterday re sizing the piece of sycamore today i fettled it in between watching the superbikes at monza ;D     not worked with sycamore before, so it was a pleasant surprise as to how nice and easy it is to work with. mind you i'm not sure i would make one piece wedges in the future, they are a realpita to hold and fettle. first i planed the taper, then used a coping saw to cut out the centre gap, then i cleaned it up with my chisels. next i started the secondary bevel with the chisels before using the shoulder plane to clean up. on the other side i cut out the slot to cover the chip breaker nut with chisels. so nice to have a nice, clean and easy cut. finally i cleaned up the corners. so the questions. how far down the blade should the wedge go?? is there a specific place it should go next question, what else can you use sycamore for, is it any good for actual furniture making??? paul |
|
|
|
Post by Scrit on May 11, 2008 22:16:22 GMT
how far down the blade should the wedge go?? is there a specific place it should go next question, what else can you use sycamore for, is it any good for actual furniture making??? Answer 1 - I'm sitting here with a post-war Marples BB wooden jack, the wedge is circa 146mm overall length and the blade 166mm ovall length. With the blade inserted into working position and the taper knocked in there'a about 25mm from the top of the wedge to the top of the blade. Although your plane might vary from this somewhat Answer 2 - Sycamore, of field maple, can be used for anything that maple would be used for. In the past it was often used for turnery and treen such as bobbins, broom handles, dairy utensils (butter pats, etc), musical instruments and so forth. Figured veneer is used for fiddle backs and inlay work, whilst stained grey it is called harewood and used in fine furniture Scrit |
|
|
|
Post by engineerone on May 11, 2008 22:36:44 GMT
and there was me thinking butter was used for butter pats ;D thanks again mate. what i was really looking for is how near to the bevel the wedge should be , or does it actually matter as long as it sits in the slots and presses against the blade and keeps it tight?? it is a really nice wood to chisel and carve. paul |
|
|
|
Post by mrgrimsdale on May 12, 2008 5:54:25 GMT
Wedge needs to extend as near to the blade pointy end as possible - to keep it held end firmly down and reduce chatter.
cheers
Jacob
PS and sycamore - best choice for trad kitchen table tops, shop counters etc. Looks good too. Very under-used IMHO.
|
|
|
|
Post by engineerone on May 12, 2008 9:33:23 GMT
blimey jacob, almost a compliment  ;D i agree very underused wood paul |
|
|
|
Post by engineerone on May 12, 2008 10:50:19 GMT
so sycamore, how much,? what size planks are available? how easy is it to get?? paul |
|
|
|
Post by Scrit on May 12, 2008 18:36:42 GMT
how much,? what size planks are available? how easy is it to get?? Cheaper than oak, more expensive than ash or beech........ General availability reasonable, although you will need to find a merchant who knows how to handle the timber, and it is not as common as other non-native commercial temperate hardwoods (so try the smaller, more specialist merchants). Sycamore was traditionally end reared for drying to prevent sticker marking (evidenced by dark stripes across the timber which can go all the way through), these days John Boddy's of Boroughbridge (N. Yorks) and a few others have developed techniques to overcome this little problem. In fact I'd recommend their sycamore as very good although not the cheapest. They are also a major exporter of British sycamore to the USA. Sizes? Available in planks from 3/4in to 4in (sometimes 6in) and widths of 12 to 18in. Problems? A few. Firstly the timber is prone to growing over itself resulting in the occasional included bark pockets. Also the timber should always be sawn with a freshly sharpened blade and one with not too many sharpenings on it as it can be prone to end grain burning with dull blades or those with insufficient side clearance. Watch the colour, too. Rapid drying produces a "white" sycamore, more traditional air drying followed by kilning will result in an altogether pinker cast to the timber as cut (which I find very pleasant). Boddy's generally sell the white variety, BTW Scrit |
|
|
|
Post by engineerone on May 12, 2008 19:58:44 GMT
thanks very useful, now all i have to do is drag myself up to yorks anyone know of someone nearer london  paul |
|
|
|
Post by engineerone on May 13, 2008 10:40:03 GMT
well, it is fitted, but three picks showing it in situ    i do still find it difficult to set the blade properly and without too much blade sticking out. must say it cuts pretty well and the finish is very smooth. the blade sharpened up very well, but the chip breaker is a little flimsy. so all i have to do now is find someone to give me more instruction about fitting the blades into my woodies, of which i have about 12 i guess. the shoulder and fettling ones are easier than the full jack  and the other problem is if the blade is set too low, then it can knock out the wedge still not a bad little project the basics finished, now it is just the fettling to learn properly. sgian i have re read your words, but still seem to knock the blade down too far when tightening the wedge so paul |
|
|
|
Post by jaco on May 13, 2008 16:09:25 GMT
well, it is fitted, but i do still find it difficult to set the blade properly and without too much blade sticking out. paul With pics like that, what do you expect! Give some decent pics! These Pauls's are frustrating! |
|
|
|
Post by engineerone on May 13, 2008 16:30:55 GMT
wot's wrong wiff me pictures paul |
|
|
|
Post by mrgrimsdale on May 14, 2008 19:06:45 GMT
wot's wrong wiff me pictures paul Nowt. Interesting abstract designs. What are they BTW, I thought I spotted a plane in there somewhere ;D Anyway abt setting them up. This my new little hobby diversion. I've now got 3 on the go inc the knackered one from that other thread. They all cut really well now. Rounded, or convex bevel sharpening more or less essential due to the thickness and hardness of the blades, which makes efin abt with jigs etc totally impractical - not that I would anyway, having given them up entirely . Wot I do is: sit plane body on nice flat piece of wood. drop blade+cap into position and wiggle it about so its well seated on the body side, and edge sitting nicely on the flat piece of wood. press wedge firmly into position by hand Lightly tap wedge in tighter with mallet. Have a go on the edge of a short board - take off left arris with left edge, ditto right arris with right edge, then straight down the middle. This shows how its cutting. Tap blade sideways to make equal arris cut. Usually the blade wants pulling in a bit - so whack back end with mallet - one sharp blow, and tighten wedge with another blow. If too far retracted whack front end with mallet. Keep repeating this paragraph until it's how you want it. When you get the hang of it it's really quick an easy, and will become 2nd nature, though I've only recently sussed it for myself. If you've got TOO MANY PLANES I'd concentrate on getting just one of them, ideally the jack, working really well. I'm really enjoying using my little collection of crap wooden planes, just for ordinary everyday bits n bobs, saving the metal planes for special occasions. cheers Jacob |
|
|
|
Post by engineerone on May 14, 2008 19:52:21 GMT
thanks jacob, i can get theblade pocking through and cutting what i am finding difficult to do is get "fine" shavings also what i did find to start with was that i had not tightened the chip breaker screw tight enough so when wacking the wedge,it was pushing the chip breaker beyond the blade i am sticking with this plane just to start with, and then i will hopefully have gotten the techinique. paul |
|
|
|
Post by mrgrimsdale on May 17, 2008 8:31:56 GMT
And you have to have a well cambered blade cutting deep in the middle and tapering to zero at the edges. A straight blade edge is difficult/impossible to use.
Planeing is a series of scoops. Think of levelling an ice cream tub with an ice-cream scoop. First a series of big scoops, then the ridges between taken off, and then the new ridges taken of etc . Plane has a much flatter curve and hence a shallower scoop.
You can see this in action if you cover the workpiece with pencil marks and see how they are removed.
cheers
Jacob
|
|
|
|
Post by engineerone on May 17, 2008 12:32:56 GMT
jacob interesting to see that you are promoting the idea that david charlesworth has been pushing hard for some time. i assume you are though referring to the blade on a jack, or is it your idea for all planes including smoothers?? paul |
|
|
|
Post by mrgrimsdale on May 17, 2008 15:26:25 GMT
Well he's right. It's an old idea though.
If you freehand sharpen in the old way you tend to end up with a hollowed stone, which gives you a camber whether you want it or not. I didn't realise this entirely until I flattened a stone (experimenting with sharpening) and sharpening became a problem, all my plane blades and chisels having a camber (you'd hardly notice on a chisel so it makes no odds).
No wonder novices have such a prob - their stones are all too flat!
Yes all planes including jointers. Not shoulder planes or other specialised ones praps.
Handy on a jointer cos you can use one side or the other to take off a fine bevel to correct for squareness, or use the middle if already square. Or if an edge has a twist you can aim the plane in a diagonal, taking off opposing bevels in one pass.
cheers
Jacob
|
|
|
|
Post by mrgrimsdale on May 18, 2008 9:49:05 GMT
|
|
