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Post by tusses on May 24, 2008 23:13:01 GMT
Hi all Scrit put me on to this forum  I picked up one of these Table saws on ebay and am after any infomation I can find. It has a tilting table - has anyone used a table saw where the table tilts , not the arbor ? I am thinking it will be a bit cumbersome to use ?? Thanks Rich |
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Post by Scrit on May 25, 2008 7:55:42 GMT
Hi tusses and welcome! The Whitehead CJ is a 12in tilting table circular saw which was made by Whitehead's in Halifax, Yorkshire. The design is a fairly old fashioned one with the table arranged to tilt down to the right rather than the arbor tilting. This means that when ripping the work piece will be partly supported on the rip fence.  In addition the saw features a two-part top which can be drawn apart to allow dado heads or profile heads to be used. Motor power is 1, 1-1/2 or 2HP. One of the main disadvantages of the tilting table arrangement over the tilting arbor one is that it can be difficult to arrange run-off support for long work pieces. Another is that bevel ripping of wide pieces is very awkward as it requires an extra pair of hands to support the work piece. The fact that the work is tilted to the right makes it advisable to straight rip to just oversize and then bevel rip to exact size as there is a greater chance of kickback with this design of saw. I'd recommend that you never use the machine without a riving knife. The CJ was a post-war design (sheet metal base, cast-iron top) and I've seen this machine in catalogues well into the 1960s so it was quite long lived as a design. It was also sold badged "Cooksley" by Whitehead's London dealer (who also made machinery to their own designs) Incidentally, the fence on your machine is not original. The machine originally featured a short steel rip fence which is intrinsically safer than a through rip fence. When I get back later today I'll try to post some sales literature on the machine Scrit |
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Post by tusses on May 25, 2008 9:50:20 GMT
Hi Scrit - thanks for that  I look forward to the sales stuff (I love old stuff like that! ) a couple of things though... what you say about the work resting on the fence makes alot of sense .... but ! my table tilts to the left !  next - you say its a 12" saw - thats great ! but, it came with a smaller blade (8" I think). Now I had measured about a bit and realized it could take a 12" blade - but.. with that size blade the arbor doesn't lower enough for the blade top to go below the table top. Is this normal on some older machines ? the other - slightly off topic - the short fence. Yes , mine is an after market one and the fence will slide back to make a short fence. My (limited) experience has been with a long fence that clamps down front and back , and so 'cant' move. Short fences (that I have seen) can flex slightly, so making the cut inaccurate , epecially on large panels. would it not be better with a full fence clamped front and back, but with a short fence (piece of wiood) clamped to the side of it ? sorry for all the questions, but I am self taught from Books Videos and Norm - I've never had anyone to ask before ! Cheers Rich |
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Post by Scrit on May 25, 2008 16:32:19 GMT
what you say about the work resting on the fence makes alot of sense .... but ! my table tilts to the left ! Well the few times I've used a canting table machine they've tilted the other way, however Whitehead were a small manufacturer who would presumably modify machines on request (even the mighty Wadkin did this from time to time). The one and only photograph I have seems to show the table tilting to the right...... One other point is that the original rip fence was a simple plate affair not unlike the sort found on older bandsaws - and they were designed for use on either side of the blade either directly or by swapping the plate over. When I get my scanner to play ball I'll be able to show you what I mean next - you say its a 12" saw - thats great ! but, it came with a smaller blade (8" I think). Now I had measured about a bit and realized it could take a 12" blade - but.. with that size blade the arbor doesn't lower enough for the blade top to go below the table top. Is this normal on some older machines ? Yes. The ability to completely drop the blade is a more modern feature. A typical industrial rip saw such as the Wadkin BSW, Sedgwick LK or Multico FS4 did not have this feature. Presumably the reason your saw is fitted with an 8in blade is to overcome this deficiency, although an 8in blade won't really have a high enough peripheral speed to cut cleanly on some timbers. the other - slightly off topic - the short fence. Yes , mine is an after market one and the fence will slide back to make a short fence. My (limited) experience has been with a long fence that clamps down front and back , and so 'cant' move. Short fences (that I have seen) can flex slightly, so making the cut inaccurate , epecially on large panels. But the problem with through fences is that they are one of the things which can promote kickbacks. I'm more used to commercial/industrial saws where the flexing issue is not an issue at all. would it not be better with a full fence clamped front and back, but with a short fence (piece of wood) clamped to the side of it ? Yes, because that will emulate the short position fence and will cope with any reaction in solid timber being ripped For your edification there is an excellent PDF file on using the table saw safely over here at the HSE web site. Well worth reading for any saw user. Scrit |
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Post by tusses on May 25, 2008 18:09:29 GMT
Thanks Scrit I am learning lots - I like learning I was thinking of selling it on again now I have the Wadkin AGS but the more I learn the more I am thinking about keeping both. maybe side by side - each an extension to the other. Maybe a dado head in the Whitehed where I wont be using the tilt, and the wadkin for 'normal' use. Is that a crazy idea ? maybe a router table on the right hand side to make use of the wadkin fence that extends past the side extension..... hmmm .... mind working overtime now ! I'll go and read that HSE stuff... |
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Post by tusses on May 27, 2008 9:43:37 GMT
1st off - anyone think my idea is crazy or OK ? 2 TS's and a router in a line, all leveld - then an out feed on the back ? second - single phase motors Axminster have them and say hi torque start. Are they any good for hi torque run ? the reason I ask, is because I went into my local machine mart al ready to buy a 2horse motor and they advised me against theirs, as they were capacitor start, but not capacitor start and run ?? also - would I get more torque from a single pole motor with a half size pully that runs twice as fast as a 4 pole motor . or are 4 pole motors more torquey to start with dont know much about motors, so any help is apreciated Ta Rich |
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Post by Scrit on May 27, 2008 21:55:46 GMT
Maybe a dado head in the Whitehed where I wont be using the tilt, and the wadkin for 'normal' use. Is that a crazy idea ? Yes. But then again I've expounded at length about the danger of dado heads on table saws (even as far as getting into The Woodworker, although they changed the title of my article from my original of "Dados for Dodos"......) The idea of using the Wadkin fence is a bit of a non-starter, partly because router fences need a cut-out to accommodate the cutter - and Wadkin AGS fences are solid steel second - single phase motors Take a look around UKWS where you will find at least one member who converted his AGS to single phase using a Machine Mart motor. I'd say if the original was a 4-pole motor (1,440 rpm) then stick with that speed of motor and utilise the original pulley wheels rather than start swapping pulleys as well. As I've probably said before, and elsewhere, Machine Mart can talk utter b*ll*x when it comes to selecting motors. Saws don't start under much load and in general use won't bog down that much even if run from a wasjhing machine motor (assuming you could get one powerful enough) Scrit |
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Post by tusses on May 28, 2008 20:57:35 GMT
ok - forgetting the for's and againsts's of dado's - if I was going to use one anyway , does that make the idea any better - or should I sell the Junior Whithead on, and let someone else enjoy it ! would it have any merits that the wadkin doesn't ? apart from the 12" blade for riping
as for the fence - I was thinking along the lines of attaching a router fence to the wadkin fence - or just set up a router table fence on its own.
I built the router table the same hieght of my table saw so I could use it as an infeed / outfeed table.
kids have gone to their mums for the rest of the holiday - so I will be re-arranging my workshop to fit the new wadkin in, I'll let you know what I decide about the Junior
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Post by Scrit on May 29, 2008 18:50:35 GMT
Hi tusses
Put simply the Wadkin AGS was al;ways a superior design and better made machine and the CJ has no advantages over it at all.
As regards reusing a Wadkin fence as a router fence I'd say don't bother. A separate router table is probably a better bet than trying to cheese-pare by modifying the table saw.
Scrit
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Post by tusses on May 29, 2008 21:50:36 GMT
ok
Thanks Scrit
Rich
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