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Post by tusses on Jun 5, 2008 18:53:49 GMT
I am after a combination blade, with a bias to cross cutting. I need to get a decent blade . When I rip, I usually finish with a jointer/plane If I can get a clean cross cut and sand to an acceptable finish that would be fine. so - I need a 10" blade. What should I buy  I will buy a seperate rip and crosscut later if needed - but I am getting the opinion that a combo blade will be satisfactory to start with. my current 'screwfix' blade from my old cheap contracter saw is dished ! I want one that will stay flat. so .... come on .... recommend away ! Rich |
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cadas
Full Member
Posts: 107
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Post by cadas on Jun 5, 2008 19:12:32 GMT
Gomex, never let me down. But best of all, when I was starting up I rang them ( I only lived down the road), they quoted me hundreds of pounds for three blades.
I explained I was starting up and it was a bit more than I could afford and I never expected anything else...but, the chap on the phone said to come in to the factory and I walked away with a full set of blades for less than 50pounds. I still use those blades eight years on, as they were their top end blades...I've assumed that they were returns or a cancelled order.
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Post by modernist on Jun 5, 2008 19:32:39 GMT
I have had some nice blades recently from cutting solutions who will no doubt soon spot your thread here. I haven't had a crosscut but the rips are fine.
Brian
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Post by modernist on Jun 5, 2008 19:34:08 GMT
Beg your pardon I have had a crosscut for my CSMS. it is fine too and all reasonably priced.
Brian
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Post by engineerone on Jun 5, 2008 19:34:14 GMT
personally i would say go for a cmt in my experience, they are inexpensive, and decent quality. i regularly use it on my dewalt 744 and get a decent cut on mdf and chipboard without much breakout. paul  |
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Post by tusses on Jun 5, 2008 19:57:58 GMT
I had a stack of blades with the saw - but they are the old type - not carbide tipped. so havent even considered they might be good blades !
I have the full range (maybe 8 or 9 types) of cross / rip / ply / fine ...
would these be usable (i guess they are, because they were sill being used ! )
but - they would need sharpening regularly . how much would it cost to get blades sharpened ? and how often do they need doing in comparison to TCT blades ?
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Post by engineerone on Jun 5, 2008 20:20:34 GMT
lot depends on where you are southern saws in high wycombe are pretty decent price suppliers paul |
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Post by tusses on Jun 5, 2008 20:27:04 GMT
I'm Coventry - west mids/Warwickshire
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Post by cuttingsolutions on Jun 6, 2008 9:48:12 GMT
The old style chrome plate saws are very old hat these days and would probably cost a lot to get sharpened and reset.
10" diameter crosscut/rip i would suggest you try 40 teeth, TCT of course, available from stock at £24.00 plus P&P and vat.
we sell the Stehle range of blades with plate hardened to 45 Rockwell for those interested.
Dave
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Post by tusses on Jun 6, 2008 10:44:39 GMT
Excellent input from all so far ! Thanks ! I am thinking about using some the carbon steel blades that came with it - see how they cut. Its all too easy to get caught up in buying new toys !!! I have taken some pictures of the ones I have - please let me know what you all think They range from 20 to 100 teeth ! 20,36,44,50,100 with some combination blades too. Makes printed on them are R.H Walker and Sons Dewalt (how long have they been about ) H.K.Porter (Canada) Disston Spear and Jackson Wadkin Nordik   |
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Post by promhandicam on Jun 6, 2008 15:20:24 GMT
No help on which blades, but you might want to adjust your riving knife so that it is a bit closer to the blade - not sure of the correct gap but around 5 mm should be about right. Oh and it might be worth measuring the thickness of the riving knife as the saw kerf should be a bit wider than the knife - no point in buying a thin kerf blade unless you are prepared to make a new riving knife.
HTH,
Steve
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Post by tusses on Jun 6, 2008 15:40:07 GMT
Thanks Steve My TS is an old wadkin ags and the knife is fixed - cant adjust. Its set right when the blade is as high as it will go - but the gap just gets bigger when you lower the blade ! I have always set the blade just above the work I am cutting. What's your opinion ? TBH - I have only just started using a knife and crown gaurd since I found the forums. I am 'Norm' and self taught and so didn't realize so many people are safety conscious over here  The Riving Knife is 2mm thick and matches the blades that came with it. Rich |
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Post by Scrit on Jun 6, 2008 17:03:01 GMT
I am after a combination blade, with a bias to cross cutting. I need to get a decent blade . When I rip, I usually finish with a jointer/plane If I can get a clean cross cut and sand to an acceptable finish that would be fine. Firstly a combo blade is a compromise. Neither fish nor fowl. So whilst it will rip and cross cut it will be slower and poorer than a blade designed specifically for the task. For high quality cross cutting I'd personally recommend a crosscut blade (a combo with a bias really doesn't exist), but then I'd really recommend using that chop saw (you don't have - something else to buy) for cross cutting and leaving the table saw for ripping...... Whatever else NEVER believe any company who say they can supply a "glue line rip". In my experience and ripped edge will always need planing to finish, even if it's just the one pass My TS is an old Wadkin AGS and the knife is fixed - cant adjust. Its set right when the blade is as high as it will go - but the gap just gets bigger when you lower the blade ! Interesting. The later AGS family certainly had a rise and fall riving knife...... I have always set the blade just above the work I am cutting. What's your opinion ? That's the technique currently regarded as the safest method I'd forget the plate saws and start buying TCT blades. Suggested blades would be something like a 36 tooth rip blade (for fine ripping), a 50 to 60 tooth crosscut blade and a separate 72 tooth triple chip blade for laminated boards. These will all be 3.2mm kerf / 2.8 or 2.9mm body thickness so a 2.8mm riving knife will be needed. I'll recommend my favourite British maker, Ernest Bennetts of Sheffield. Very knowledgeable, very helpful and they still make blades here in the UK. Other good names include Leuco, Leitz, Proline, Stehle, Gudho, etc (all German). As for your old blades, Wadkin no longer make tooling (stopped in the 1970s), H.K.Porter were mainly "consumer" (i.e. DIY) quality when imported (or so I've been told), S&J have pulled out of supplying circular saw blades directly and DW started in 1923..... Scrit |
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Post by tusses on Jun 6, 2008 19:03:55 GMT
Hi Scrit As far as I can tell from the serial number the TS was made in 1961 now - dewalt ... I always thought they were the trade/heavy duty range of black and decker I dont know where I got that idea from , but it was years ago ! I guess I will have to get some TCT blades sooner or later I was kind of hoping that someone would spot one of my blades and say it was a really good blade and look after it !  as for cross cut or rip ? how good is a good cross cut blade ? as I tend (at the moment) to plane/joint all my rip cuts anyway. sounds like I am gonna have to make me a new riving knife too ! |
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Post by Scrit on Jun 7, 2008 17:38:22 GMT
The thing about blades is that they don't last forever. You could try getting a saw doctor to sharpen your saws, or rather the one and only TCT blade you have (lower photo, lower row, RH side), but industrial TCT saw blades have just 6 to 10 sharpenings in them, whilst DIY ones are often only good for 2 to 4 sharpenings. If you buy a couple of decent quality TCT blades you'll be amazed at the difference.
Scrit
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Post by cuttingsolutions on Jun 7, 2008 18:05:00 GMT
industrial TCT saw blades have just 6 to 10 sharpenings in them, whilst DIY ones are often only good for 2 to 4 sharpenings. If you buy a couple of decent quality TCT blades you'll be amazed at the difference. Scrit Good quality TCT blades should have 10-15 sharpenings....depends how long you lot leave them on the machine for before deciding it aint cutting properly, which then allows the saw doctor to tell you he had to do a heavy grind and charge you a lot more .....I dont know why people bother sharpening the cheap diy ones....costs more to service than buy new... I wouldnt use the one and only TCT blade in the pictures....looks like its back to the braze, if not the braze is all over the place....could be dangerous. Dave |
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Post by cuttingsolutions on Jun 7, 2008 18:10:32 GMT
In replying to the original post...
there is no such thing as a combination blade.
you either want to rip, cross cut or fine cut...there is an inbtween on cross and finish....
Rip blade 250 mm diameter - up to24 teeth
crosscut 30- 70 teeth
finish cut up to 120 teeth (if you can get one for cutting wood)all the ranges depend on the material being cut and the envisage finish level...
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Post by Scrit on Jun 7, 2008 18:58:49 GMT
Good quality TCT blades should have 10-15 sharpenings....depends how long you lot leave them on the machine for before deciding it aint cutting properly It also depends on what you're cutting. For example sycamore and maple crosscut well only with relatively new blades...... Once the rear clearance behind the tooth has been reduced these timbers have a tendency to scorch - even if the blade will happily cut other hardwoods. On the other hand walnut, sycamore, ash and other hedgerow timbers sometimes contain "inclusions" (I've found bits of iron fence, barbed wire, lead bullet heads, nails, screws, silicate accretions, etc) all of which can and will happily write off a blade (too many teeth damaged = uneconomic to repair). Even chipboard contains the odd screw and silicate clump. If I were only to saw uncoated MDF I'm sure that I'd get a much longer life - as it happens what I find is that before blades have reached their final grind the cost of retipping has made them uneconomic. Hence my comments about how long blades last. ;D Interesting what you say about combi blades. Personally I tend to use table saws for either ripping (rip blades) or sheet work (ATB or triple chip depending on what I'm cutting) and I leave my crosscutting to a crosscut saw. However, for site work I've had blades described by the likes of Freud as "combination blades". Presumably a crosscut blade which can do limited ripping? Scrit |
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Post by tusses on Jun 7, 2008 18:59:58 GMT
so ... what results do you get if you rip with a good crosscut blade ?
can you use a finish cut crosscut blade far all your crosscutting ?
can you see where I am going here !
if I was to spend a decent amount on a good blade, which one should I get 1st ?
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Post by cuttingsolutions on Jun 9, 2008 22:47:07 GMT
Not sure if this question is to me....
If it is....I refer the honourable gentleman to previous reply... ;D
You really would only need 3 blades to cover many aspoects of what you want...100 quid...at a guess for top quality blades....
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Post by tusses on Jun 9, 2008 23:22:58 GMT
is a good cross cut blade ok for ply ?
I am still trying to decide which blade to buy 1st.
I have my old blades that do an 'ok' job - but I have never used a 'good' blade , and as Scrit said - I might be amazed ! , if so - I will get the other two you speak of.
but having only used cheap rubbish upto now, I dont know what to expect !
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Post by tusses on Jun 9, 2008 23:26:47 GMT
sorry Dave - I just re-read the thread , you recommend a 40 tooth , yes ?
would this be ok for ply too ? - birch mainly, and some oak faced .
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Post by cuttingsolutions on Jun 10, 2008 2:30:41 GMT
For crosscutting i would recommend a 40 or 48 tooth blade in 250 mm diameter....from the pics it looks like a small bore, probably 16 mm so you will need a reducing bush. for ply.... a totally different application....without going to hollow faced blades which many saw doctors have a problem regrinding correctly...i would suggest a negative hook blade with severe alternate bevel 50100206 250 x 30 Z=80 3.2 kerf. (actually has the wrong part number on the web site  ) I'm afraid you may have to buy a few blades for specific applications and keep them JUST for that application. |
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Post by tusses on Jun 10, 2008 8:25:24 GMT
Thanks Dave
I am learning !
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Post by Scrit on Jun 10, 2008 21:33:50 GMT
from the pics it looks like a small bore, probably 16 mm Actually, Dave, we're talking pre-metrication here..... AGS s generally came with 5/8in arbors. OK, so I know that's only 16.1mm, but there are some 16mm bore reducers out there which won't work with the Imperials stuff, as older deWalt RAS owners may well know. I would suggest a negative hook blade with severe alternate bevel 50100206 250 x 30 Z=80 3.2 kerf. I'd add a slight notre of caution that negative rake blades require more care as they are more prone to kickback generation and produce appreciably more resistance to the cutting motion than positive rake blades. I'm afraid you may have to buy a few blades for specific applications and keep them JUST for that application. I do so agree. One rip, one crosscut and a blade for plywood. When you start cutting MFC (melamine faced chipboard) or MF-MDF (melamine faced MDF) you'll probably need another one, too. Scrit |
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