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Post by Dave S on Aug 7, 2008 19:35:57 GMT
I gave up using the horrid, noisy, dusty router entirely, as soon as I got the hang of the spindle moulder and realised just how limited the router is ....... Yes, I see Scrit has been making the same point recently. A decent router in a table is as far 'up the ladder' as I've got and as far as I'm likely to go. I was thinking that for Tusses who is just taking his first steps into doing this for a living, it might be a stepping stone to a spindle moulder, particularly as he has a router already. But of course, I'm looking at it from an amateur's perspective, so feel free to enlighten me ;D Interesting that you hardly touch a router these days - do you think that's because of the type of work you do, or could many others dump their routers too? I guess one would be needed for site work? Dave |
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Post by tusses on Aug 7, 2008 21:24:05 GMT
Hi Scrit. Thanks again for taking the time to post. I read the article you linked to, and I have read most of it before in various places. I do use a half fence for some operations as do I use a full fence for others, such as ripping 2' off of a large sheet. A couple of points came to mind . Just thinking out loud, and I am a bit tired after a long day driving. if you have a riving knife - and mine is quite stiff - then the knife would keep the force of the wood off the blade 'to some extent' if you have a feather board attached to a full fence holding the work down, then the back of the blade cant lift the piece up - this would make kickback less possible if the blade was high with more lifting force than frontwards force. If the blade is set low then the blade force is towards the front and I would imagine kick back could happen more easily. this just leaves the issue of exposed blade guarding. for the noise issue - I dont find the TS very noisy at all for most operations. The router is noisy and I dont enjoy using it - I have ear defenders and I do use them - it's doesn't make for enjoyable woodworking ! even in a table - the router is noisy when it cuts, the TS is very quiet by comparison. I have a planer(jointer) and its quiet, I have a thicknesser and its noisy. I dont like that either ! I choose my times carefully as I live/work in a quiet/peacefull area. As for the risks - surely some things that are enjoyable have an associated risk ?. small cuts and bruises are nothing really. loosing a finger would be admittedly. I am heavily into martial arts , because I enjoy it. Sure, after some fights I come away with broken ribs or a bloody nose, but I wouldn't stop just because something else is safer. I love to ride my motor bike which is statistical more dangerous than a car - but I still do and enjoy it. sometimes its more than just getting from A to B. I am currently getting a Trans-Am ready for the drag strip - not the safest of pass times, but it will sure as hell be fun ! same with wood. you mention nibbling with 3mm cut might be a bit dangerous where as 6 or 12mm might be more dangerous. TBH the enjoyment of working those 3mm I would say I feel I am careful enough for it to be worth the risk. I feel like I am woodworking if it was 6 or 12mm I might very well use a different technique. but if all I was to do, is make jigs and fixtures and guards and clamps to the end that all I did was to 'load' the wood in and wait for it to come out the other end, I would soon loose interest. I dont know it you can understand the way I live, I am not just a chancer who doesnt care if he dies tomorrow, but I dont want to live my life wrapped in cotton wool either. I do consider everything I do. I do appreciate all your viewpoints and advice, and I do think it all over. I do take some of it in, some of it I do practise already, some of it I might just think 'well I'll be more careful when I do that then' - again, just being honest ! on a more important note - lots of others (not as 'stoopid' as me  )will read your advice when they come here , so more fingers will be saved  |
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Post by Scrit on Aug 7, 2008 21:27:53 GMT
I guess one would be needed for site work? Funnily enough not that often, really. Apart from their use in kitchen fitting (joints, etc) one of the few tasks I can think of wher you need a router of site is bull-nosing window boards. Doubtless somebody will now correct me ;D On the spindle front I'm with Mr G - far better than a router any day, although routers can do some things spindles can't (like work cross halving joints and housings) whilst the obverse is also true (like large tenons, big rebates, etc in a single pass) Scrit |
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Post by engineerone on Aug 8, 2008 10:59:36 GMT
ok back to basics, i have finally figured out how to change the blade  not as difficult as i imagined  now the big question what type of blade should i put on i have 60 tooth or 80. at the moment i am doing more hardwood than mdf, but which is better for which job??? paul |
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Post by tusses on Aug 8, 2008 11:05:27 GMT
cant help with your blade choice, but sorry for the tangent on your thread !
Rich
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Aug 8, 2008 11:19:14 GMT
Apart from their use in kitchen fitting (joints, etc) one of the few tasks I can think of wher you need a router of site is bull-nosing window boards. Doubtless somebody will now correct me ;D Scrit ;D ;D I've never taken a router on site. Bull noses is one of those little jobs which I really like to do by hand with a jack plane, and a block plane on the end returns. Doesn't take long and tends to look much nicer than a router job, where the cutter is often not exactly the right radius, and you can't easily do the ends. And it's quieter, dust free, one less trailing flex etc etc. cheers Jacob PS and it impresses the client: "ooh look he's doing real woodwork with curly shavings" In fact its a good idea to take a bag of curly shavings anyway, to scatter discretely, and to wear pine scented aftershave ;D |
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Post by engineerone on Aug 8, 2008 11:39:19 GMT
don't worry about the tangent, i think the value of this site is that we can have these discussions and diversions and still all talk to each other ;D i am sure many will agree that we have all learnt from this thread, i certainly have, so we have evolved a proper way of dealing with matters. paul |
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Post by Scrit on Aug 8, 2008 12:31:17 GMT
Bull noses is one of those little jobs which I really like to do by hand with a jack plane, and a block plane on the end returns. Ever tried that when you're installing a house-full of MR-MDF window boards? It's nice to put solid wood ones in, but a lot of trim work is green MDF these days whether we like it or not (and I don't) Scrit |
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Post by andy on Aug 9, 2008 6:01:28 GMT
now the big question what type of blade should i put on i have 60 tooth or 80. at the moment i am doing more hardwood than mdf, but which is better for which job??? paul Depends on thickness of material Take a look on the Freud uk site and have a read of the saw blade manual |
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Post by cuttingsolutions on Aug 10, 2008 14:32:56 GMT
Andy Very fine information. But I'm afraid it only refers to composite materials and does not include ripping in its suggested tooth with its calculator. I also like the way they slag off the competitors products.....45 Hrc...thats the hardness of the saw body....has been standard for top quality saw blades for many years.....tensioning rings (or TUNING rings as they call them) have been used for over 20 years. HW....the carbide teeth.....most top manufacturers have been using Ceratizit for their teeth for over 20 years. Ceratizit is the world leader in tungsten carbide products.... Hey ho.....does the product really match up to the other top quality products on the market?  ? |
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Post by andy on Aug 10, 2008 17:06:52 GMT
Andy Very fine information. But I'm afraid it only refers to composite materials and does not include ripping in its suggested tooth with its calculator. I also like the way they slag off the competitors products.....45 Hrc...thats the hardness of the saw body....has been standard for top quality saw blades for many years.....tensioning rings (or TUNING rings as they call them) have been used for over 20 years. HW....the carbide teeth.....most top manufacturers have been using Ceratizit for their teeth for over 20 years. Ceratizit is the world leader in tungsten carbide products.... Hey ho.....does the product really match up to the other top quality products on the market? ? So what do you suggest we read |
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Post by thebloke on Aug 11, 2008 9:26:18 GMT
Scrit wrote: Great thread, heard this all before somewhere my own view is that Scrit would get more sense out a brick wall if he banged his head against it ;D However on the subject of sawing the tops of boxes, I fancy a decent bandaw with an adequate depth of cut is the machine to do this, or else do it the hard(er) way and use a tenon saw - Rob |
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Post by nickw on Aug 11, 2008 20:14:56 GMT
I find it best to use a slitting cutter on the router table
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Post by engineerone on Aug 14, 2008 10:42:16 GMT
finally got round last weekend to changing the blade, and you smart ar*es were right, it was mainly down to the age of the blade, and the gunge on it. none the less interesting to know and understand. so whilst chopping some bits today for my chisel seperator, i found the trenching stop had flipped up, and took me a little bit of thought to re arrange it. so i wonder how do you accurately set the trenching stop, it seems to be more difficult than i would like. don't forget it is a 708,dewalt, so this would also apply to the 718 and maybe other scms. paul |
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Post by tusses on Aug 14, 2008 10:50:01 GMT
on a side note I was getting wifey's car through the MOT last week. I use diesel to clean the crap off small components (brake calipers this time) and then let it settle and use it again. with this thread in mind, and the diesel still settling in the tub, not put away yet , I dug took a grungy blade and gave the diesel a go worked a treat, nice shiny blade ! a rinse off with white spirits and a coat of PTFE spray and its cutting nicely on the TS again so ... anyone know of any detrimental properties to this method of cleaning blades ? |
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Post by engineerone on Aug 14, 2008 11:30:04 GMT
actually i am not sure what it might do to the carbide, but diesel does include a lubricant, whilst petrol has a kind of stripper in it. which is why when you put the wrong fuel in your vehicle it causes different kinds of damage. some of us are old enough to remember redex which you put in with your petrol to help lubricate the valves and top end of the engine. paul |
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Post by Scrit on Aug 14, 2008 11:36:18 GMT
so ... anyone know of any detrimental properties to this method of cleaning blades ? The lingering stench? |
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Post by tusses on Aug 14, 2008 11:49:29 GMT
True ! but I have that already from working on the cars  |
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Post by cuttingsolutions on Aug 14, 2008 21:55:03 GMT
Why let the blades get grungy in the first place..... A clean blade, flange and lock nut are ESSENTIAL to maintaining the tool life. Its likely the ptfe spray has done the best part, so the diesel was probably not required.... you will probably find it gets grunged up again quite soon.... then the tips will get badly rounded over and you will need "extra" grinding to get a sharp edge back, which will halve the life of the saw blade.... costs you more for servicing then costs you again cos its worn out quicker and you need a new one...... what am i saying  carry on that way i love it  Means i get the chance to sell more blades ;D ;D |
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Post by tusses on Aug 14, 2008 23:33:57 GMT
this blade had been clean for a while, but a few cuts of some pine/spruce/redwood (not sure which) I had just grunged it up in one go. I usually cut oak and ash which seems to leave the blade clean. it had set, but the diesel sofetened it up with the 1st wipe, and it came right off with the 2nd. the ptfe went on after it was clean. like I said - it was just there in the tub, so I thought I'd try it |
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Post by staffie on Aug 18, 2008 10:59:49 GMT
Tusses,
Interesting thought using the diesel, I generally use "Parafin", to clean my blades. Wipe on, leave for a few minutes then wipe off and most of the gunge comes off straight away. Also seems to leave a film on the blades but dont have burning (Or have not yet had).
Got this idea from a local sawmill who used it to clean thier 4" bandsaw blades after cutting iroko and such.
Cuttingsolutions
Does Parafin also damage the blades as you indicated with the diesel.
regards
Jock
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Post by cuttingsolutions on Aug 18, 2008 20:22:20 GMT
[quote author=staffie board=woodwork thread=1693 post=23335 time=1219057189
Cuttingsolutions
Does Parafin also damage the blades as you indicated with the diesel.
regards
Jock[/quote]
Sorry Jock
You must have misread something in my post. Cant see where I suggested diesel might damage the blade.
Lack of care, poor cleaning, using the wrong blade for the application will all cause damage
I do wonder about traces of parafin or diesel left on the blades getting into the material being cut....
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Post by gazza on Aug 18, 2008 22:17:37 GMT
finally got round last weekend to changing the blade, and you smart ar*es were right, it was mainly down to the age of the blade, and the gunge on it. none the less interesting to know and understand. paul Every days a school day Paul !! so i wonder how do you accurately set the trenching stop, it seems to be more difficult than i would like. Simple answer mate, You dont. I find it more of a gimmic than a means to cutting accurate trenches (depth wise). Depends on how much pressure you put on the saw handle for each pass, cutting 20 or so trenches, your last trench wont be as deep as the first due to fatigue. Cut to near enough depth and clean up with a sharp chisel. Cheers, Gazza. |
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Post by staffie on Aug 19, 2008 8:31:56 GMT
Cuttingsolutions
thanks for the clarification I misunderstood your post and appologise for that.
Jock
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Post by jfc on Aug 20, 2008 18:31:53 GMT
I used the router every day untill i got the spindle moulder . Now i hardly touch it and my work load is still the same .
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)will read your advice when they come here , so more fingers will be saved 
not as difficult as i imagined 
