Help Bargeboard

[Sgian Dubh]

Nov 2, 2008 10:04:03 GMT sainty said:

If you look closely you can see it, although its not obvious. It's most obvious on the section above the round bottom part on the right hand side (the same left section also shows it quite well). I think this is why the OP is asking for help, like you say a straight forward bevel would be relatively simple.


rgds

Stu

I still don't see it Stu. I just see a shadow darker near the front face, but I'm not convinced it's a quirk. It might be a trick of the light with the white background reflecting on to the narrow edge. Maybe spud will confirm the existence of a quirk, or not.

Anyway, I was just thinking that on the rounded bottom end I might switch out the drawknife for part of the job and use a powered hand plane to rough out the bevel, but that's the only change in methodolgy I can think of.

If there is a quirk, then I think most of it could be worked from the back face with a router and some form of slitting cutter on a bearing ... or even a home made scratchstock. Slainte.

[cnc paul]

Spud,

Bring them around to my workshop....I will do them for Free.


Paul

[spud]

Yes it does have a flat quirk, about 2/16th's, before it then bevels at thirty/thirty-five degrees for an inch.

[spud]

Can you see the quirk better now?

[paulchapman]

I'm now totally confused about which bit of wood we are talking about I've obviously been looking at the wrong bit for this quirk.

Cheers

Paul

[engineerone]

well i might as well keep digging the hole

what is the definition of a quirk

are people perhaps talking about a separate thing??

i still wonder whether in fact under the paint, this was made
of at least 3 pieces. since it was mirrored you wonder whether
it was made in the factory since it might well be a relatively standard product. the top piece would go over the arc, and be
supported by the cross beam under neath, carrying the finion

paul

[spud]

I'm now totally confused about which bit of wood we are talking about

It is the bottom profiled edge of the actual bargeboard. All around it's periphery, it has a quirk and chamfer following the shape.

what is the definition of a quirk

It is a small flat (but I have seen them on matchboards with a slight angle on them) before it turns into a mould, like the old quirk and bead matchboard T&G paneling that they used to use.

or even a home made scratchstock

This is what I think, also. I think they had some profiled blade sitting in some sort of spokeshave, and they finished the internal mitres by hand.

[engineerone]

ok still not sure i understand any better about the quirk.

however i am still sure that no one would waste so much wood as to not make this from at least 2 pieces, ie joined at the top under the roof apex. it is difficult to imagine getting one piece of solid wood that wide at the bottom, even with really old growth american timber

even in stone work, which often has similar shapes to this, you tend to look for the smallest piece you can make, and then join.

if you look at the repairs going on in york minster that is what happens. as a kid i watched a number of good craftsmen in stone make various chamfered items in solid stone, and one tended to under cut, then use a large flat chisel. stone work is misunderstood, since stone too has a kind of grain, and heavy handedness can cause it to split. in the corners where two angles joined, one chiselled that shape out first vertically as it were from the top of the shape to the open piece in the bottom then chiselled up to it, using a flat bolster at a shallow angle.

i think richard's idea about a draw knife is right on the money for a hand finish, but i do think you need to create the intersections first and work toward them.

paul

[paulchapman]

Nov 2, 2008 12:04:40 GMT spud said:

I'm now totally confused about which bit of wood we are talking about

It is the bottom profiled edge of the actual bargeboard. All around it's periphery, it has a quirk and chamfer following the shape.

Ah, now I see.

Just a thought. Given that it is so high up from ground level and would be difficult to see anyway, would it matter too much if it didn't have the quirk

Cheers

Paul

[gazza]

Sainty has given a link to the wealden cutter that would work a treat.
Use the right hand pictured profile bearing no. TB504 (which shows what a quirk is at the bottom edge 3mm )
Probably better done on a router table. You may be able to do it carefully freehand, but i would suggest a bigger sub base to help with balance.
Then plane off the top rebate down flush to the bevel.
The awkard corners and returns could be finished with a sharp chisel and rasps.
Cheers,
Gazza.

[spud]

it is difficult to imagine getting one piece of solid wood that wide at the bottom, even with really old growth american timber

Oh Christ! I thought you meant both the left hand and right hand side, where made from one single piece. No the bargeboards are a mirror of one another, i.e there is a left-handed one and a right-handed one each from seperate stock 10" deep, by 1-1/4" thick.

The 'two' sides have a vertical butt joint starting at the top of the gothic arch shape, and ending at the peak.

Behind the bargeboards, there are a normal set of rafters that have oversailed the gable of the dormer. The end of the ridgeboard is tenoned into a junction piece, which has on each side another mortice, which the tenons at the top of the over-sailing rafter fit into.

Behind the gable of the dormer, the last rafter is checked down it's lenght, where the ends of dentil pieces fit into. These penetrate through the gable and the opposite ends are checked into the oversailing rafters.

The ornate barges are then planted onto the over-sailing rafters. The drop pendant, goes up behind the butt joint and has a tenon of the end, which fit's into a mortice on the underside of the junction piece. the horizontal collar is cogged onto the back of the pendant, and half laps the oversailing rafters.

Alright Jimmy?

[engineerone]

aye jimmy that'll work for me

if possible it would seem to be something better done on a pin router, but top up rather than down.

paul

[Sgian Dubh]

Nov 2, 2008 11:20:18 GMT spud said:

Can you see the quirk better now?

I can, but it's not a quirk, which perhaps partially explains why I couldn't see it when other contributors kept mentioning quirks; I kept on looking for this damned quirk which doesn't exist, ha, ha. What the edge of those boards have is a tongue, the same as one form of raised and fielded panel.

Anyway, now that I can actually see the requisite moulding profile it makes my idea of using a drawknife redundant. I'd say a spindle moulder cutter is more appropriate, plus a bit of hand carving to refine corners and intersections. Slainte.

[promhandicam]

Nov 2, 2008 10:58:30 GMT spud said:

Yes it does have a flat quirk, about 2/16th's, before it then bevels at thirty/thirty-five degrees for an inch.

Looks more like an 1/8th to me but you are probably correct

Nov 2, 2008 12:30:13 GMT paulchapman said:

. . . Just a thought. Given that it is so high up from ground level and would be difficult to see anyway, would it matter too much if it didn't have the quirk Cheers Paul

Some one else thinking along the same lines as me
Perhaps we should team up as Bodgit and Scarper ;D

Steve

[mrgrimsdale]

Is the 1/8" actually a thin lath nailed/glued on? Would make the whole job easy, but also makes sense as it would cover a lot of end grain.
Whatever/however - a close look and a scrape should reveal all.

cheers
Jacob

[paulchapman]

Nov 2, 2008 17:11:16 GMT promhandicam said:

Nov 2, 2008 12:30:13 GMT paulchapman said:

. . . Just a thought. Given that it is so high up from ground level and would be difficult to see anyway, would it matter too much if it didn't have the quirk Cheers Paul

Some one else thinking along the same lines as me
Perhaps we should team up as Bodgit and Scarper ;D

;D ;D

[Sgian Dubh]

Nov 2, 2008 22:04:12 GMT paulchapman said:

Perhaps we should team up as Bodgit and Scarper

I've heard of that business. They always offer a copper bottomed tail-light guarantee. You know, the one that goes, "As long as you can see my tail-lights ... " Slainte.

[promhandicam]

Nov 2, 2008 23:15:17 GMT Sgian Dubh said:

I've heard of that business. They always offer a copper bottomed tail-light guarantee. You know, the one that goes, "As long as you can see my tail-lights ... " Slainte.

mmm. . . . that sounds a bit too dodgy. In our t&c I think we should stick to the tried and tested "guaranteed until the cheque's cleared" ;D

Steve

[spud]

Well, I cannot use a spindle, because I don't have one. Even if I did, I don't know whether I would be confident enough to use it to do something like this straight off.

So it's either by hand, or a router. I have had a look at my router and it is a Trend T9EK, not a T11. It is a big router though, with a very large opening in the base. I also have a router table to fit it in as well.

But once again, it is not something I have ever done on a router table before. From what I can see, these big panel raising cutters have their cutting edge pointing upward in the router table, so I would have to run my bargeboard over the top of it, and roll the bearing around the profile. I cannot understand how you can see what is happening if the cutting edge is underneath the workpiece.

[sainty]

You need some of these:


XR Safety Goggles

rgds

Stu

[engineerone]

certainly the major problem with a piece this length on a normal type router table is going to be supporting it on both the input and output side, because by its size it is going to want to tip.

having done the rough cut, you are certainly better off doing it on the basis of a pattern sheet on top of the workpiece to ensure you follow the shape you want more easily, that way you could more easily see where you are going, assuming that is that you could get a bit with a long top bearing to run on that piece.

hth

paul

[paulchapman]

I'd still go for a plain bevel - if you hadn't pointed out that it was a different shape, nobody would have noticed

Cheers

Paul

[cnc paul]

Spud,

You have a PM


Paul