Stanley no 1

[Head clansman]

Hi all

this is one plane i would like to complete my collection of Stanley planes but at 400 pounds starting price like the one on e bay no thanks.

Just been reading a tread on this plane on an other forum interesting opinions on what was the actual use this plane Stanley intended it for .

two things that did become clear from owner of them 1. was the very small size it is and the way in which you had to use it as a normal hand could not grip the handle in the normal way as you would say a 4 , 5, and above 2. and one was why has No body tried to improve on it over the yrs if its that difficult to use. So guys and girls theories as to why Stanley produce this tiny plane and has any one hear tried to improve it that you know off and i don't necessarily mean manufactures. hc

[Head clansman]

Hi
if the administrators about sorry could you move this thread to hand tools please hc

[smudger]

As you probably know, Patrick Leach suggests they were used as block planes, but also notes that most examples show very little use. If that is true, why not use a block plane? They were available within a year of the introduction of the #1.
I've also seen them suggested as children's planes, but that doesn't seem too likely. Again a block plane, or even a #3 would be easier for small hands. Perhaps the small size meant that they fitted easily into toolboxes?

Interesting that although Record copied most Stanley bench planes they never made an 01. They can't have seen a market niche for them.

There must have been a use, they were produced for 80 years!

[Head clansman]

Hi smudger

that right in eighty yrs there must have been heck of a lot made i dont ' buy the theory they were sized like that just for kids in schools , stanley or other makers never made smaller saw chisel etc just for kids, mind you if that was the case that was good forward thinking in those days get them intersted whilst there young but i dont think so, and i dont buy the theory about salesman samples either if that was the case how many salman did they employ? so what was there use intended for . hc

[mrgrimsdale]

Dec 19, 2008 13:31:56 GMT smudger said:

snip

There must have been a use, they were produced for 80 years!

Doesn't necessarily follow. Tool makers have always made stuff on the off chance, not just in response to demand. Tool users then imagine they must be useful, and buy them. Amateurs and beginners especially will buy alternative tools in the hopes that this will improve their performance - especially if there is a sequence of numbers with the suggestion that missing out a particular number is a disadvantage.
It's (almost) all a delusion, especially with planes - where almost everything can be done with a 5 1/2 jack alone ;D (Record for preference)

Or in other words - the No1 is probably completely useless (no experience myself), but that won't stop people from buying them ;D

[Head clansman]

Hi jacob

Or in other words - the No1 is probably completely useless (no experience myself), but that won't stop people from buying them

It may well be it was useless , who knows?, i dont know either ,only ever seen pictures of them but what was it's intended use ? just to complete the numbers, in eighty odd years thats a heck of a lot of useless planes, i dont think so. hc

[mrgrimsdale]

There's a big thread here www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=44488
They are all scratching their heads too!

[paulchapman]

Purely a collectors plane in my view. Lie Nielsen make a copy and even a corrugated sole version - so now the collectors can buy two

www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?grp=1258

Cheers ;D

Paul

[Head clansman]

Hi all

that the tread i was reading , five other companies made them as well , so i dont think there just for collectors schools or salesman samples with all five companies over a possible eighty yrs , now lie neilsen makes them we know it as a clone, with or without corrugated soles that a lot of planes so what were they intended for ? hc scratch scrath hmm

[paulchapman]

I think firms make them just because they can and people will buy them. I don't think it really has a purpose other than that, otherwise Lie Nielsen would spell it out in their blurb - as it is all they say is that it is based on the famous Stanley #1. Probably famous for generating endless debates about what the hell you'd want one for ;D

Cheers

Paul

[Head clansman]

Hi paul

Well may be if we all knew what there intended use was then generation of pointless debates about what the hell would then be pointless , somebody must have a use for them , lie neilsen blurb does say for finer work, that covers a multitude of sins but that lie neilsen not stanley the original makers . hc

[paulchapman]

Hi HC,

Sorry if I appear to have been a bit cynical, but I really don't think they have a specific purpose from a user's point of view. By comparison, a good block plane is about the same size but ergonomically far better in that you can hold it properly. With the Stanley #1, the handle is rather useless in that it's too small to be held normally.

I have no problem with small bench planes - I use a Clifton #3 a lot and it is one of my favourites. But smaller than that and I think the design and shape needs to be different to make it a good user. Hence my feeling that it is really primarily made for collectors.

Cheers

Paul

[mrgrimsdale]

Others which are useless are the 4 1/2 and 5, if you already have a 5 1/2. Any one of them is useful, the 5 1/2 most, but the differences between them are not significant IMHO

[Head clansman]

Hi Paul

It's ok , but no not primarily collectors, five companies made them over eighty yrs could be possibly a million or so or more. the block plane was made just about a yr later and set at a much different angle so two very different planes altogeather, we cant say the block plane was to replace this model if it was why would they have contiued making them up to 1943 ish . they must have had an intended use.? collector now?. hmm maybe. hc

[Head clansman]

Hi jacob

all us woodies all make and manufacture very differing type of woodwork /joinery so some planes i would need to use on my type of work you would not , hence the large range of stanley or othere makes of planes. My planes range from 3, 4, 4,5, 5, 5.5, 6, & 7 plus rebate plane 2 block planes and and two wooden rebate plane one 1.5 the other a 3/4 rebate plane which i collected over my working life i have used them all and use them regulary depending on the size of material being used at the time and it's location. hc

[paulchapman]

Dec 19, 2008 15:56:05 GMT Head clansman said:

the block plane was made just about a yr later and set at a much different angle so two very different planes altogeather

Not necessarily. Many people take the view that block planes excel at planing end-grain but I'll often use a bench plane because in some situations it works better. Here I was planing some end-grain laminated oak. Too big to do on the shooting board so had to do it free-hand. The block plane didn't have enough heft so I used the #3 with a very tight mouth and razor-sharp blade



But then I'll sometimes use a #7 on end grain as well. I don't think it matters what particular jobs planes are supposed to be used for - more a case of what works in practice.

Cheers

Paul

[Head clansman]

Hi Paul

Actually IMHO I dont rate block planes at all, i find there's not enough weight in them i would much rather use a sharp bench plane any day somthing to get hold of, having said that it really depends where and on what i'm working on would depend on which plane i would decide to use. hc

[mrgrimsdale]

Dec 19, 2008 20:43:04 GMT Head clansman said:

Hi Paul

Actually IMHO I dont rate block planes at all, i find there's not enough weight in them i would much rather use a sharp bench plane any day somthing to get hold of, having said that it really depends where and on what i'm working on would depend on which plane i would decide to use. hc

I use block plane for a lot of bits n bobs one handed, so light weight is useful, but for end grain I'd use my heavy 5 1/2 jack.

[modernist]

You'd think they'd whack the logo in the middle for that money

Brian

[engineerone]

picky picky picky ;D
you sure it is not pauls strength when planing

what is more interesting about this is what number did they start with, and why??? doesn't make too much sense.

also why are the 4, 41/2, 5, 51/4, 51/2 all so similar,
except really for blade width???

paul

[paulchapman]

Dec 19, 2008 23:24:14 GMT engineerone said:

also why are the 4, 41/2, 5, 51/4, 51/2 all so similar,
except really for blade width???

Because you can never have too many planes ;D

[mrgrimsdale]

Dec 19, 2008 23:24:14 GMT engineerone said:

snip
also why are the 4, 41/2, 5, 51/4, 51/2 all so similar,
except really for blade width???

Who cares, if you are a plane maker, as long as somebody buys them ;D
4 1/2 and 5 1/2 are same width. At least mine are. I've never really found a use for the 4 1/2, except it's handy to have a few sharp planes around so you don't have to stop

[engineerone]

as usual a non answer jacob

the 4&5 have 2inch wide blades, and 5 inches different in length
the 41/ and 51/2 have 23/8th blades and again the 5inches length difference
whilst the 51/4 has a 1 3/4 wide blade, but is the same length
pretty much as the 5

why are they so similar?

paul

[tommo]

I reckon it goes like this, L.B designs a new fangled iron plane in an age when most users have woodies.
The little ones are cheaper to produce so its easier to entice users with smaller cheaper units to create a market.
They don't know what will be the most useful sizes so they make
a range and cast them in batches I have no idea of the numbers involved maybe a hundred at a time who knows.
They have some success but many user's complain about the shape of the little'un...so they design the block plane.
Stanley used to list stuff if it was in stock didn't matter if it had
been in stock 10 weeks or 10years. By the time the stock is depleted either some nutcase has taken a liking to it or collecting
started earlier than we think...those lucky bastards with their complete collections 1,2,3 and 4 or they could be for dwarfs

Cheers Tom

[mrgrimsdale]

Dec 21, 2008 0:28:34 GMT engineerone said:

as usual a non answer jacob

the 4&5 have 2inch wide blades, and 5 inches different in length
the 41/ and 51/2 have 23/8th blades and again the 5inches length difference
whilst the 51/4 has a 1 3/4 wide blade, but is the same length
pretty much as the 5

why are they so similar?

paul

Could be a self evident truth - in that you have selected a group of planes which happen to be similar ;D ;D
On the other hand compare and contrast a no.7 and a no.3 if you see what I mean ;D