stevep
Junior Member
Posts: 63
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Post by stevep on Jan 3, 2009 18:23:53 GMT
I'm after a scraper plane. Being tight I can't afford a Lie Nielsen or a Clifton (unless someone offers me a too-good-to-miss secondhand deal, ie not ebay). Are there any other makes that are worth considering?
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Post by engineerone on Jan 3, 2009 18:53:33 GMT
being tight doesn't mean you can't afford it, only you won't ;D check out the veritas one it really is worth the extra. paul  |
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Post by paulchapman on Jan 3, 2009 21:11:46 GMT
I would definitely go for the Veritas scraper plane  For me the big advantage it has over the Lie Nielsen is that, when using a thin blade, you can bow the blade as well as tilting it. This gives you far more control over the cut. A really excellent tool. For smaller work, the Veritas #80-style scraper is also excellent - much better than the old Stanley and Record models  If you don't want to spend much, the only cheap, new ones I'm aware of are Kunz, but they really are rubbish. Hope this helps. Cheers Paul |
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Post by Head clansman on Jan 5, 2009 17:29:34 GMT
hi all much better than an old Stanley  , says who, both makes mentioned are over expensive clones of Stanley anyway . hc |
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Post by engineerone on Jan 5, 2009 18:22:39 GMT
clansman you're beginning to sound like jacob ;D old stanley's are going to be pretty loose and in need of an amount of work if you buy them off flea bay. if they recently made some, then if they are anything like my plough plane, they are not particularly well made either. i too have both the lv items that paul has shown, and agree they are well made, easy to adjust and tune and more importantly properly made with care and concern about the finished product. price is always an issue, but it is better and more economical to get a proper product.  paul |
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Post by paulchapman on Jan 5, 2009 18:39:39 GMT
much better than an old Stanley , says who, both makes mentioned are over expensive clones of Stanley anyway . Says me ;D You may think that the Veritas products are merely clones of the similar-looking Stanley tools, but they have subtle, but significant, differences that put their performance in a different league. Cheers Paul |
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Post by Head clansman on Jan 5, 2009 21:42:03 GMT
hi sound like Jacob that's ok by me , all my planes are Stanley wouldn't have anything else all the rest are over expensive clones theirs no doubt about that . i recently bought from e bay a early Stanley scrapper plane it in very good condition and its fine its stood the test of time as has all my Stanley plane which I've owned for the last forty yrs all has plenty of life left in them. I can't help but wonder where all you guys in a few yrs when these toys have all worn out and all the companies who make them have gone against the wall in the recession what make of planes you'll all be scrambling to buy of of flea bay then , i wonder ;D ;D |
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Post by colincott on Jan 5, 2009 23:41:40 GMT
HS I would like to know how much you paid for your stanley scraper plane as I have been looking at them but have gone over waht I would like to pay for one  |
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Post by Head clansman on Jan 6, 2009 7:14:51 GMT
hi Colin
any tool is only worth what your prepared to pay for it, if you really want one then you have to pay what it go's for. I know e bay can be expensive, i paid about 136. Thats what i thought it was worth and would have paid more if necessary just for the work i have planed for it . still a lot cheaper than the more expensive models on the market today which incidentally do exactly the same job and they don't do it any better or quicker . hc
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Post by colincott on Jan 6, 2009 12:20:43 GMT
Hi HC
The ones I have been looking at have gone for a lot more but have a stanley 80 and lots of hand scrapers os was in no rush to buy one ( have used hand scrapers lot ).
For the right job, I would get one but not had one I could not get over yet.
Would make life a lot easier on a big area.
Thanks Colin
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Post by Head clansman on Jan 6, 2009 13:22:46 GMT
HI Colin
it a bite iffy theres one on e bay right now but looks like it may clean up OK ? dint know how to transfer the web link sorry just type Stanley 112 scraper plane should find it .hc
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Post by andy on Jan 6, 2009 13:29:10 GMT
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Post by colincott on Jan 6, 2009 14:58:59 GMT
Thanks I will keep my eye on it but will have to see how much the posted is and might get done for TAX as always  |
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Post by Head clansman on Jan 6, 2009 16:50:25 GMT
hi andy
mine was from the states postage about 41$ tax well i 've been lucky in the past never paid it chance you take . i know it all adds up but think of the grunt you save . hc
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Post by engineerone on Jan 6, 2009 17:49:29 GMT
clansman whilst i accept and understand your point, the fact is that you have had your stanleys in the most cases for a long time, and if so they were the better made ones and you obviously have cared for them. however, if someone is new to the game, and has not the experience, then they may well be buying overpriced cr*p on flea bay because they cannot understand what to look for. like paul i agree that in particular, lv offer extra and modern contributions to the design which in my view will survive even were the unthinkable to happen. stanley after the router became so prevelant made down to a price, and reduced the quality of some of the really important things, whereas i personally cannot believe that this will happen with lv. paul |
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Jan 6, 2009 19:53:57 GMT
clansman whilst i accept and understand your point, the fact is that you have had your stanleys in the most cases for a long time, and if so they were the better made ones and you obviously have cared for them. however, if someone is new to the game, and has not the experience, then they may well be buying overpriced cr*p on flea bay because they cannot understand what to look for. It's all part of the learning curve - there's no avoiding it. The alternative of buying incredibly overpriced LN etc is even less attractive and could put a lot of people right off from the beginning. A lot of us have to make do with what we can afford, but the work does not suffer particularly - how to use them effectively is much more important than the quality of the tools. You could say that the craft of woodwork revolves around what you can make with whatever kit you happen to have. Saw, axe and drawknife can be enough ;D |
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Post by paulchapman on Jan 6, 2009 20:09:04 GMT
The alternative of buying incredibly overpriced LN etc is even less attractive and could put a lot of people right off from the beginning. I would not rate the Veritas scraper plane as incredibly overpriced at all. HC said that he paid £136 for his second-hand Stanley - the current list price of the (better in my view) Veritas is £175-94. Not a lot in it price-wise...... Cheers Paul |
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Post by Head clansman on Jan 6, 2009 20:31:23 GMT
HI all Jacob i was sitting here pondering how to reply to this tread when yours popped up , I couldn't have but it better thank you . It is nice to have good quality tools even if they are grossly over priced toys for the boys , some on this forum need to remember a lot of the younger guys coming on behind us have more pressing commitments . I'm sure most have Young children and most must have mortgages the size of the national dept Most properly in low paid employment as well more important thing to them is to be able to feed there families and keep a roof over there heads than buy LN etc. as Jacob says it all part of the learning curve get to know your tools first , get to learn all the trick of the trade as you progress through the years and as time hopefully get better for them OK maybe toys for the boys but i think most when tradesmen have learnt there trade stick with what they started with as there tools have become a part of them. All i can say if companies like Wedgwood can go down after 250 yrs what hope has LN got they only been around but a plip in time , i really hope they don't, but lads don't hold your breath will you it would be a shame to lose your opinions . hc ;D ;D |
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Post by Head clansman on Jan 6, 2009 20:33:23 GMT
Hi paul
to some 39 quid is a lot . hc
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Post by engineerone on Jan 6, 2009 20:44:59 GMT
sadly clans your analogy with wedgewood does not really work. one of the biggest problems that people here will not accept is that too many of our bigger companies are still trading on reputations which are indeed old, but their products do not meet the real needs of the general public. too little of what wedgewood or even waterford produced was usable on a daily basis, and a lot was quite old fashioned. what both ln and lv do is look at products which have been recommended to them as something that needs a modern take, and they try to upgrade it whilst keeping the basics right. neither company is stuck with a lot of old fashioned baggage, and i think from what i know about the guys who run both, having met both, is that they are well aware of the pitfalls of their business, so do not seek to grow too quickly with masses of products which are just adequate. they both produce products which are a decent improvement on the original upon which the idea was based. it is all very well saying you learn, but the fact is that if you do not get any training, then finding a ratty old tool which does not actually produce what you want is more likely to put you off than buying at least one of the two brands, or indeed even a clifton, and discovering the joys of a properly established, well set up tool which has little or no back lash, and has from the get go a blade and retaining system that is likely even straight from the box if you know no better, to actually cut wood quickly and well. my recent experiences with some record and bailey planes that i found and re fettled led me to be sure to buy the best i could afford, and i felt that was lv and ln. once i got them, i saw what i had been missing, and looked at again at the records, but still need to change the blades, and clean up the sole. at the moment i get more pleasure actually cutting and shaping the wood with tools that do what they say on the box, rather than spend the woodworking time on fettling a tool which is never going to be quite as good. all this of course is related to our personal beliefs and abilities, but just because a number of people collect these things, do not assume we all do. remember it is pretty rare to get a proper woodworking training these days, my mate's kid is one of the few i know in recent years that got properly trained, but when he was entered in to competitions, he got hammered for time, because he had been trained with hand tools, whilst his competitors were using routers. even so because of his training he got a number of awards because of the quality of his work. sadly too few people are prepared to offer this training, so fewer get the chance to learn the skills needed to understand and fettle older planes. paul |
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Post by paulchapman on Jan 6, 2009 21:16:45 GMT
Hi paul to some 39 quid is a lot . hc Yes, HC, I know it is. I'm not a young whippersnapper with more money than sense - I'm retired and living on a limited budget, so I do understand about costs and value for money. I can't afford any machinery and do virtually all my work with hand tools so I tend to use the ones which perform best. I have some old Record and Stanley planes which I've had since the 1970s but frankly they don't perform well compared to my Clifton bench planes and Veritas specialist planes. My views are not based simply on opinions but through being able to use the planes side by side and make direct comparisons. But if you are happy with your Stanleys, that's fine with me Cheers Paul |
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stevep
Junior Member
Posts: 63
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Post by stevep on Jan 6, 2009 21:33:34 GMT
Years ago I bought a Sandvik scraper (the ordinary card type). I didn't realise just how good it was until I lost it and bought another nameless replacement. Try as I might, I can't get a decent edge on it, and any edge I manage to get is soon lost even on softer stuff like walnut. That's why I want something decent.
I've got a little LN block plane which is superb, all my other planes are Record, at least 25 years old and all good workhorses (though I did buy a Clifton blade for my Record 3 in 1 block plane).
Not sure about eBay - I've bought a few secondhand things but I like to look them over first-hand. Buy cheap, buy twice more often than not.
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Post by Head clansman on Jan 6, 2009 21:48:17 GMT
Hi guys I think i made my point clearly enough most have more pressing commitments . you passed a comparison on the cost difference on the scraper plane , agreed not a great difference to some but yes to others , but come on now show the individuals costs to the entire range of planes these companies produce . I think when most see there excessive costs that alone will decide which path an individual will take basically to suite there own pockets. Yes I'm very happy with my old Stanleys and i will continue to advise the younger member to buy old Stanley, that i hope will allow them to learn how to master there tools experience come with age . Hopfully ln etc will still be around in years to come , maybe who knows, for the younger guys to progress to. .hc |
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Post by colincott on Jan 6, 2009 22:15:07 GMT
I like you HC have a lot of old stanley planes ( from 1890- 1925 ) and am very happy with all of them but also have stanley block planes ( 2 low angle and one standard ).
For me being a pro that has used a lot of hardwoods like wenge, satinwood which are very hard and or wild grained ( Antique restorer ).
Spending far to much time sharpening to get a good cut with little tear out can be a real pain.
I have a LV low angle block plane now and would have been happy to pay for one ( got it for helping with test a tool ), it is now the fist one I go for every time and I am happy to leave the others in the bottom of my tool box just in cast I forget the LV one on a job.
I am not saying the Stanley's or no good just that the LV is much better plus both of the low angle ones I have or cracked at the mouth on the bases.
A fault I think they got over by making the bottoms thicker.
I would be happy to get the stanley scraper plane and save the money but now I will look at the other makers and see if they have what I might be looking for.
For me it might be the extra money is well spent.
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Post by paulchapman on Jan 7, 2009 9:24:34 GMT
I am not saying the Stanley's or no good just that the LV is much better plus both of the low angle ones I have or cracked at the mouth on the bases. That's a very big advantage with Clifton, LV and LN - the metal from which they make the bodies is virtually unbreakable. Cheers Paul |
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, says who, both makes mentioned are over expensive clones of Stanley anyway . hc 
