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Post by thallow on Nov 28, 2007 17:39:20 GMT
Well I started to repair my rotten sill in situ - however the more I hacked away the more rot I found  So after a deep breath and a quick call to SWMBO to explain that our newly decorated bedroom was to be 'newly decorated' no longer...I decided to take out the whole frame  As you can see from the pics here it the base of the frame was completely rotten:  and from another angle:  and here is the frame in all its glory:  So the top part of the frame is all fine, basically I am just going to repair the bottom of the weight boxes and make a new cill. I have some oak in my shed so am contemplating making the sill out of this (and then painting it.....  ) I will keep you posted with the progress! BTW the frame came out very easily, after I had taken off the architraive (?) then it was just a case of pulling out 2 wedges at the top of the frame (as Mr Grimsdale predicted) and then the whole thing just lifted out....so as to avoid lots of mess down the stairs I actually lowered the hole thing out of the (now) large whole where the window had been! |
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Post by 9fingers on Nov 29, 2007 10:06:34 GMT
Possibly worth saturating the new and old wood with preservative. I use solignum - more because it is what I have around rather than it being better or worse than anything else.
Don't do what I did years ago with a replacement sill - soak it in creosote. It wont rot but even 20 years later it won't take paint without blistering.
Good Luck
Bob
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Post by thallow on Nov 29, 2007 20:57:33 GMT
Possibly worth saturating the new and old wood with preservative. I use solignum - more because it is what I have around rather than it being better or worse than anything else. Bob and it will take the paint just the same as if it was bare untreated wood?  Cheers Bob,  |
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Post by jfc on Nov 29, 2007 22:29:47 GMT
May i suggest you turn the window the other way up before instaling it othewise you will have a very bad draught ;D
Interesting you mention paint not taking to the windows , my last load of windows where treated ( by polish builders) and the paint is blistering . The thinking was that dipping the frames was the problem but you saying this has me wondering what they used before painting .
Thallow , why are you going to repair the uprights rather than make new ? You have a template there to make a whole new box sash frame and it really is very easy . If i was in your shoes i would copy that frame and fit the old sashes back in . From what i can see you could even strip back the internal part with the pockets if that part is bothering you .
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Post by 9fingers on Nov 30, 2007 10:28:05 GMT
Possibly worth saturating the new and old wood with preservative. I use solignum - more because it is what I have around rather than it being better or worse than anything else. Bob and it will take the paint just the same as if it was bare untreated wood? Cheers Bob, I've not observed a problem with Solignum treated wood failing to take standard oil based white gloss. Don't know about water based paints. I'm enough of a Luddite not to trust water based finishes for outdoor work - it just don't seem right to me. Bob |
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Post by thallow on Nov 30, 2007 16:41:39 GMT
and it will take the paint just the same as if it was bare untreated wood? Cheers Bob, I've not observed a problem with Solignum treated wood failing to take standard oil based white gloss. Don't know about water based paints. I'm enough of a Luddite not to trust water based finishes for outdoor work - it just don't seem right to me. Bob oh thats ok then as I have some F&B exterior paint which is oil based and goes on a treat |
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Post by thallow on Dec 3, 2007 13:10:35 GMT
May i suggest you turn the window the other way up before instaling it othewise you will have a very bad draught ;D Thallow , why are you going to repair the uprights rather than make new ? You have a template there to make a whole new box sash frame and it really is very easy . If i was in your shoes i would copy that frame and fit the old sashes back in . From what i can see you could even strip back the internal part with the pockets if that part is bothering you . Yes you are right, I decided to copy each piece one by one and have produced thus far:   the hardest part was creating the sill as the old one was rotten (and chopped to pieces ) that i had nothing decent to copy!  here is my attempt - it aint perfect but as a first effort it taught me a heck of a lot! I am painting the frame today and hopefull to get it back in place next weekend ! weather & swimbo permitting ;D |
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Post by thallow on Dec 3, 2007 13:13:27 GMT
May i suggest you turn the window the other way up before instaling it othewise you will have a very bad draught ;D I wondered why the weights wouldn't keep the darn thing open ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by dirtydeeds on Dec 15, 2007 20:21:31 GMT
thallow its looking good altough the photo is a bit grainy (not a critisism) the cill and the cut outs / housings are correct may i suggest you remove all the paint from the stiles and rails of the sash, removing the paint from the stiles makes for a realy smooth running sash. dont forget to paint them again the photo of bottom the sash shows that your joints have opened up and you may as well fix them now rather than at a later date removing the paint from the rails, particularly the bottom rail of the bottom sash reveals any rot and loose joints if you are lucky and you havent any rot in the mortice and tennon joint remove the paint from the opened joint with an old saw (without cutting the tennon) then glue (pu is a good choice) then carefully and gently applying a sash cramp will close the joints right up dont go like a bull in a china shop with the cramps because you can break the glass |
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Post by jfc on Dec 15, 2007 22:40:23 GMT
Looking good , easy innit !
DD has a good point about tightening up the sashes but he forgot to mention the wedges again ;D The glue is probably shot in the mortice and tenon and the wedges are lose . You can probably see the wedges sticking out further than the tenon . If you can , clamp up and pull the wedges out , glue up and knock them back in . If not just chisel them out and glue in some new ones .
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Post by dirtydeeds on Dec 15, 2007 22:47:01 GMT
jfc and wedges  dom and incomplete jobs its enough to make you weep |
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Post by jfc on Dec 15, 2007 23:33:52 GMT
;D
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Post by thallow on Dec 16, 2007 16:14:05 GMT
Looking good , easy innit ! DD has a good point about tightening up the sashes but he forgot to mention the wedges again ;D The glue is probably shot in the mortice and tenon and the wedges are lose . You can probably see the wedges sticking out further than the tenon . If you can , clamp up and pull the wedges out , glue up and knock them back in . If not just chisel them out and glue in some new ones . yeah to be fair once I had pulled them out I was surprised how simple they were in construction; I know they are approx 100 yrs old but I cannot believe the genius of their design - it works so well and yet really is so basic! I have fitted the new frame in place and filled the cavity at the sides and top (between frame and wall not the sash cavity ;D) with some expanding foam, before it was just filled with what appeared to be loosely held togerther dust!!! (I think somebody said on another post that they use sawdust and horsehair - lovely!!!) once swibo brings the camera back then I should be able to update with some pics. The tenon wedges were still in place so i 'poked them with a stick' as recommended by Mr G and they kinda just fell out - I used some small oak offcuts and copied their size and shape and then cramped the frame and knocked them back in - worked a treat! I managed to reuse most of the sash frame, as seen in pics and really have only replaced the box parts that were rotten, considering its age the rest of the wood was absoulutely fine so I could see no reason to replace it. Thanks all for advice so far...! |
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Post by dirtydeeds on Dec 16, 2007 18:34:14 GMT
the oldest box sash windows ive worked on were about 250 years old, clearly the sashes were much newer
the only real difference bwtween the old sash boxes and the modern (relative term) was the thickness of the pulley stiles, which were inch finished
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Post by thallow on Dec 16, 2007 22:19:31 GMT
the oldest box sash windows ive worked on were about 250 years old, Whoa that is some serious age.....gotta be about as eco friendly as you could get huh! |
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Post by jfc on Dec 16, 2007 22:32:23 GMT
Dont be silly , UPVC will be around for hundreds of years ;D
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