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Post by jfc on Oct 29, 2007 11:31:18 GMT
Does anyone have the link to that site that shows the best way to insulate your house . Also showing double glazing as rubbish .
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Post by engineerone on Oct 29, 2007 11:57:14 GMT
surely jacob will have that site permanently marked as a hard wired item ;D  paul  |
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TonyW
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Post by TonyW on Oct 29, 2007 13:05:03 GMT
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Oct 29, 2007 13:39:58 GMT
You could ask here www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/If you google you mostly get DG suppliers so thats no good but there is www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/home_improvements/home_insulation_glazing/glazing (snap TonyW) The rule of thumb often misquoted is that DG halves heating loss in a typical house, but thats only half of what's lost through the windows, which is typically 10%. Half is 5% which equals what you might save on you bill. So annual heating bill £500 = saving of £25 p.a. which is obviously not worth the expense of DG. Money much better spent elsewhere - nearly all other energy reducing options are more cost effective. I've worked it out in detail for several houses in the past and come to the same conclusion - but circumstances vary, the only thing to do is to work it out for the house in question. "Which book of Plumbing & Central Heating" is good starting point. You also have to take into account that DG is obsolescent with a high failure rate and replacement cost - and with plastic windows things get even worse. cheers Jacob |
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Post by thatsnotafestool on Oct 29, 2007 14:20:39 GMT
Trouble is, try telling Building Control that!
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Telos
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Post by Telos on Oct 30, 2007 12:16:03 GMT
...snip... Also showing double glazing as rubbish . Double glazing may well be "rubbish" in an old house if the only consideration you make is whether they pay for themselves. However, if you are more concerned with living in a draught free house (single glazing generates convection currents), with no condensation puddles on your window boards and a significant drop in external noise then DG is more than worth it. If the only reason you bought anything was if it paid for itself, there would be little point in many home improvements. Bitching about DG just sounds like Luddite Moaning Old Git Syndrome to me |
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Post by jfc on Oct 30, 2007 13:44:57 GMT
and that sounds like someone that has just spent a fortune on double glazing to me ;D
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Oct 30, 2007 13:58:09 GMT
snip if you are more concerned with living in a draught free house (single glazing generates convection currents), with no condensation puddles on your window boards and a significant drop in external noise then DG is more than worth it. If the only reason you bought anything was if it paid for itself, there would be little point in many home improvements. Bitching about DG just sounds like Luddite Moaning Old Git Syndrome to me Yes to sound reduction, no to condensation; you get it with DG too, sometimes worse cos of seals not allowing drain off to the outside, and higher humidity due to lack of ventilation. Watch the icicles form outside a sash window as the condensation trickles out on a frosty day (if we ever get one again  ). Single glazed window with designed in gaps work as a de-humidifier. Not necessarily draughty at all. DG windows keep humidity high and you get other condensation probs on walls or other places. OK I'm a moaning old luddite git but that doesn't mean I'm wrong ;D . Experience I call it ;D cheers Jacob |
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Telos
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Post by Telos on Oct 30, 2007 15:50:12 GMT
and that sounds like someone that has just spent a fortune on double glazing to me ;D How on earth did you guess |
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Telos
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Post by Telos on Oct 30, 2007 16:03:33 GMT
Yes to sound reduction, no to condensation; you get it with DG too, sometimes worse cos of seals not allowing drain off to the outside, and higher humidity due to lack of ventilation. Watch the icicles form outside a sash window as the condensation trickles out on a frosty day (if we ever get one again ). Single glazed window with designed in gaps work as a de-humidifier. Not necessarily draughty at all. DG windows keep humidity high and you get other condensation probs on walls or other places. OK I'm a moaning old luddite git but that doesn't mean I'm wrong ;D . Experience I call it ;D cheers Jacob You shouldn't be getting any condensation on a DG unit, but then you are right about higher humidity, which is why new windows should have permanent trickle ventilation. Single glazed windows may have natural ventilation due to gaps but that isn't what I meant by single glazing causing draughts. The extreme temperature differential next to single glass causes warm air to cool rapidly and sink to the floor, this feels like a draught to anyone sat near a window. The good old days may have been great but I still prefer a draught free lounge at a uniform temperature! I'm still waiting for one 'o them old fashioned cold winters... maybe this year so I can feel smug behind me new windows  ... |
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Post by dom on Oct 30, 2007 17:27:25 GMT
We've had double glazing for twenty years (Everest) and the noise reduction has been tremendous, as I recall, the need to 'turn up' the central heating reduced and we have definitely never had a problem with condensation but did with single glazing.
Dom
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Post by evergreen on Oct 30, 2007 17:35:45 GMT
Telos
In my last house, I had top-of-the range DG installed. In the small print of the contract, it said that no DG could guarantee to eliminate condensation because no installer knows what you are going to do in your rooms or what ambient temperature you like. If you have sources of water vapour in a room e.g. humans, kettles, showers, fish tanks, etc, combined with a low ambient temperature in the room and inadequate ventilation, you will get condensation when the temperature outside drops. It won't be half as bad as with single glazing but you will get some. Don't get me wrong - I like DG for all the other reasons you've listed. I just wish the system in my new house was good as the one in my old house!
Regards.
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Telos
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Post by Telos on Oct 30, 2007 19:45:06 GMT
Simple solution. Whilst indoors, stop breathing out |
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Post by engineerone on Oct 30, 2007 19:55:45 GMT
surely the thing to remember is that single glazing was introduced in the time of coal fires, and these things need air flow. double glazing stops air flow. ergo if you are not careful you will get condensation. most people get condensation because they do not open their windows for most of the year. so there is no air flow, the moisture stays in the room. for those who use them, think air tools, the best system has a moisture trap to ensure that the compressed air does not move moisture through the tool. very important for spraying paint whilst it is true that there are changes of temperature around a single glazed window and the room, it does make youwonder if the people who first installed central heating actually thought about air flow. we put radiators under windows to gain from the air flow, but does it actually work that well?? has anyone got any proven data?  on my estate many people complain about condensation, and many of us do not have double glazing. when investigated you discover that ALL the windows are sealed, and people have blocked off the air bricks. no wonder they have condensation, if air cannot move, water will build up.  paul |
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Post by thatsnotafestool on Oct 31, 2007 6:33:32 GMT
You shouldn't be getting any condensation on a DG unit, but then you are right about higher humidity, which is why new windows should have permanent trickle ventilation. That requirement has been quietly dropped, thank God. What's wrong with opening the window? |
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Telos
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Post by Telos on Oct 31, 2007 9:14:39 GMT
You shouldn't be getting any condensation on a DG unit, but then you are right about higher humidity, which is why new windows should have permanent trickle ventilation. That requirement has been quietly dropped, thank God. What's wrong with opening the window? Oh, I agree. Nothing at all wrong with opening a window, but trickle vents can be left permanently open without fear of some git sticking his arm through your window to break in. Some of the more fancy trickle vents are even temperature/moisture sensitive and open and close themselves. |
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). Single glazed window with designed in gaps work as a de-humidifier. Not necessarily draughty at all. DG windows keep humidity high and you get other condensation probs on walls or other places.
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