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Post by engineerone on Oct 10, 2007 22:05:05 GMT
this one may be for alf,but anyone else who can help would be useful   two, 10.5 and 8.5 inches long 3.5 blade and 2.5 blade. held in by tangs. so do i drive the blades out and then sharpen, and if so how do i ensure they go back tight??? big one seems sharp enough for softwood, but not i think for hard. so any real info on what kind they are and how they should be sharpened, and then used??? paul  |
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Post by colincott on Oct 10, 2007 22:54:24 GMT
Paul You sharpen them like I showed you how to on your draw knife The outside on a bench stone ( which ever you pick ) and use a small stone on the inside. If the tangs are lose, you can glue a small piece of wood inside the hole to make tighter. I hope that is clear but if not I have some of my own that I can sharpen and show you at the same time  |
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Post by engineerone on Oct 10, 2007 23:05:03 GMT
sounds fun, i wondered whether i needed to take the blade out, or do you sharpen in situ?  paul |
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Post by Alf on Oct 11, 2007 8:06:45 GMT
Well I'll take your word for it that they're wooden spokeshaves...  Take the blade out to sharpen - light taps on each tang alternately so you don't muck the holes up too much. I sharpen the bevel on a regular stone like this:  If the blade's too narrow or the tangs foul, then I'll use the side of the stone, but a slipstone will work just as well. Another way to deal with lossened tangs is to use a small screw in the side of the body to bear on each tang. Cheers, Alf |
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Post by engineerone on Oct 11, 2007 9:23:14 GMT
thanks alf, well what else would i call them??? they are not works of art it is just that i have them, and see that as a good reason for making them work. paul |
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Post by colincott on Oct 11, 2007 9:51:04 GMT
Nice tip about the screws Alf Now I have two #53's ( one someone has rounded the bottom on ), I would not use the woodys much. Did you get some new blades for yours? |
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Post by jake on Oct 11, 2007 11:01:35 GMT
I think Alf may have been taking the piss (in more polite terms) out of your camera, which appears to have got so drunk it had blurred double-vision.
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Post by engineerone on Oct 11, 2007 11:26:03 GMT
think you're right jake it is the f*cus mind you doing the photo on the top shelf of the new table was aimed at getting a better light reflection than in my dark workshop. now i will try again in the day light and find a proper focus length. anyway i always feel it a badge of honour when alf is both ironic and helpful paul |
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Post by engineerone on Oct 11, 2007 11:41:03 GMT
well i tried again, not sure how much better they are, must get round to getting a newer machine  the folding rule is for colin, a metric one by the way interestingly the larger handle shows a a 3 arrow design which i think is MOD, not BSA although it is similar to that company's mark of 3 riflesand i know they made some tools during the war and at the end, and the date 1945, plus a serial number, 7/2533 which might be a stocknumber or a product number. pretty sure the old man brought it home after RAF service during that war. the smaller one has not discernible marks, although i think that is just down to wear. not sure i will use them much, but it is as much to do with learning how to sharpen them so i can consider better one, and also sharpen my LV one  for which i have the excellent short blade tool which recently allowed me to sharpen portable planer blades off a makita plane. paul |
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Post by Alf on Oct 11, 2007 13:09:08 GMT
Sorry, Paul - I was indeed extracting the Michael. As it happens I recently purchased a book about wooden spokeshaves by Ken Hawley & Dennis Watt based on the information in the Hawley Collection in Sheffield, but I only got a quick flick through before it went into the "save for Christmas" black hole.  Hoping there might be some info on whether there are recognisable differences in body style that'll help identify some of the "unmarked". No matter if there isn't though - I got it for the chapter on how they were made and the special tools used. I'm such a sad geek... Colin, new blades for the #53? Nope, not yet. Still in two minds to be honest - still don't like the idea of having to disassemble a working tool just to make a blade fit.  Cheers, Alf |
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Post by engineerone on Oct 11, 2007 15:35:58 GMT
well alf as if you would take the micheal ;D  seemslike an interesting book though paul |
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Post by colincott on Oct 12, 2007 0:10:26 GMT
Hi Alf I was thinking of getting a #51 blade and putting a slot in it with the dremmel If I do I will let you know how it goes if you want? |
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Post by Alf on Oct 12, 2007 6:57:27 GMT
Yes, please, Colin - would be glad to know. I did wonder about trying to make my own - if I ever get off my behind and actually have a go at making so much as a single plough cutter. Cheers, Alf |
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Post by colincott on Oct 12, 2007 11:44:50 GMT
Alf That was the other way I was thinking of going about it and making one I can get the steel from Tilgear, so I think I will have a look in to that as I dont think the Stanley blades will be up to much  I will let you know what I do. |
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Post by Alf on Oct 12, 2007 13:41:04 GMT
Colin, well since this morning I've had a longer look at the Preston shave I have, and the iron is shot so I'm going to have to do something. I think it might take the thicker Hock blade though, so maybe time for a word to Mike Hancock to see if he has one. And of course I could take the chance to see what issues there are with it in a Stanley #53... Cheers, Alf P.S. Ye gods, even the Other Place didn't object to Mike Hancock's name! |
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Post by paulchapman on Oct 12, 2007 14:56:45 GMT
Ye gods, even the Other Place didn't object to Mike Hanc*ck's name! ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by jfc on Oct 12, 2007 17:19:39 GMT
You can blame the poster who tried to test the swear filter for that |
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Post by mrspanton on Oct 24, 2007 20:23:14 GMT
I have one very old wood spoeshave, it is beech and the sole is worn into a convex groove with doing spindles and legs and I love it. It takes some hammer. When the blade dwindles or gets dings i just bang it hard and level on the bench top so the 2 blade pins push the blade out. I use a hard washia stone to do up the edge, sometimes also file if theres a bad ding. It is loose fit, so I use spoke shaving's about 3/16 inch wide to fill the gap's, and adjust with a small pin hammer or more usually just tap it on the vice screw ;D The good thing about the convex groove is you can get different depths of cut depending where you place the shave.
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Post by craigmarshall on Oct 27, 2007 17:06:47 GMT
Hi all,
One of Paul's original questions was how are these wooden spoke shaves used. I don't think anyone's answered this yet, although I may have missed it.
I can work out how to sharpen them, but I have trouble working out how to use them. There isn't any height adjustment, the "beds" of the spokeshave are often worn, and it seems that the cutting depth must be controlled by what angle you hold the spokeshave (unlike any other plane!), unless I miss something. Anyone able to shed some light?
Cheers,
Craig
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Post by paulchapman on Oct 27, 2007 18:42:20 GMT
Anyone able to shed some light? Hi Craig, Have a look at this link for the Veritas wooden spokeshave kit - if you scroll down and click on Instr it has instructions for making and using them www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=3&p=49710&cat=1,50230&ap=1 Also look at the instructions for their low-angle metal spokeshave, which works i a similar way, where the blade is also the bed of the 'shave (the pictuires on this link make it clearer) www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=3&p=44834&cat=1,50230&ap=1 That low-angle 'shave is particularly good and one of my favourites. Cheers Paul |
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Post by Scrit on Oct 28, 2007 5:26:03 GMT
You can blame the poster who tried to test the swear filter for that I thought that was you! Or possibly Senior |
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Post by Scrit on Oct 28, 2007 5:45:09 GMT
There isn't any height adjustment, the "beds" of the spokeshave are often worn, and it seems that the cutting depth must be controlled by what angle you hold the spokeshave (unlike any other plane!), unless I miss something. Anyone able to shed some light? Some of them do have a crude form of height adjustment using threaded tangs and thumbscrews, but I'd say the biggest problems with a lot of wooden shaves is that the mouth is shot, i.e. worn too open, or that the blade is used up. Wooden spokeshaves were not bought ready to use, rather the user not only had to sharpen the blade but also to adjust the mouth opening to suit - combined that with wear and you'll begin to see why wooden spokeshaves were an expendible tool and why some users had multiple spokeshaves, each with their own permanent depth setting and possible a mofified sole shape. If your spokeshave has enough metal left in the blade but the mouth opening is too great it will be necessary to "plate" it with a piece of hardwood or brass. If the tangs push up too far, remove the blade and push a sliver of veneer or leather packing into each of the tang holes and replace the blade. Getting the depth of cut right this way can take a bit of trial and error but is the traditional way adjustments were made. This crude adjustment is probably why modern wooden spokeshaves have proper screw adjusters Scrit |
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Post by craigmarshall on Oct 28, 2007 9:36:45 GMT
Have a look at this link for the Veritas wooden spokeshave kit - ... Also look at the instructions for their low-angle metal spokeshave... Yes - looked at those, but they don't seem to function in the same way as these old ones (no height adjuster on the old ones for one). No real "plane-mouth" to speak of. they just seem to work like a small drawknife.. Craig |
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Post by craigmarshall on Oct 28, 2007 9:43:46 GMT
Some of them do have a crude form of height adjustment using threaded tangs and thumbscrews, but I'd say the biggest problems with a lot of wooden shaves is that the mouth is shot, i.e. worn too open, or that the blade is used up. Wooden spokeshaves were not bought ready to use, rather the user not only had to sharpen the blade but also to adjust the mouth opening to suit - combined that with wear and you'll begin to see why wooden spokeshaves were an expendible tool and why some users had multiple spokeshaves, each with their own permanent depth setting and possible a mofified sole shape. If your spokeshave has enough metal left in the blade but the mouth opening is too great it will be necessary to "plate" it with a piece of hardwood or brass. If the tangs push up too far, remove the blade and push a sliver of veneer or leather packing into each of the tang holes and replace the blade. Getting the depth of cut right this way can take a bit of trial and error but is the traditional way adjustments were made. This crude adjustment is probably why modern wooden spokeshaves have proper screw adjusters Okay - that kind of explains it. Basically, they're very awkward tools to set up and use, especially when they're worn out. I can't imaging getting the depth adjustment right very easily, with just two tapered tangs holding the blade in the body. The first time you use it, and apply a bit of pressure, your adjustment must go out of the window! Sounds like a frustrating way to work. In my mind, I kind of equated them to the woodie-planes without depth adjusters, where there's a kind of "trick" to getting the depth and lateral adjustment right (i.e. put the blade in while it's on a piece of hardwood). I was wondering if there was a similar trick for the shaves that made them easier to use than they look, but evidently not. Thanks. Craig |
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Post by Scrit on Oct 28, 2007 11:53:38 GMT
Basically, they're very awkward tools to set up and use, especially when they're worn out. I can't imaging getting the depth adjustment right very easily, with just two tapered tangs holding the blade in the body. The first time you use it, and apply a bit of pressure, your adjustment must go out of the window! Sounds like a frustrating way to work. Whenb they were worn out they were thrown away - and from what I've seen a lot seemed to end up in antique shops! If tyey aren't workn out, however, the trick is to get the right amount of packing in the tang hole and to use only a light, forwards motion. The spokeshave "bottom" is actually the flat back of the blade (imagine a plane iron placed flat on the bench), so it's necessary to tilt the blade (in fact the whole spokeshave) slightly forwards in order to achieve any controlled cutting action, and there's really only a narrow "window" of tilt at which the shave will cut. By changing this angle heavier or lighter cuts are achieved. In the cutting position any pressure is on the nose, which should help explain why they wear out and are discarded (and why brass strips were used on some better models). Wooden spokeshaves were traditionally cheap tools and therefore not worth repairing. In use the acton of using a wooden spokeshave is actually much more "freehand" than using any plane and much nearer to using something like a drawknife. Once you start you'll quickly become used to. I've seen shaves modified with a crude depth control mechanism comprising two drilled and tapped holes drilled through from the top surface slightly inboard of the tangs and into which round-head screws had been inserted. The mouth was thus stopped from closing up. Some modern wooden spokeshaves have these sophistications built-in (like these from Dave's Shaves):    Scrit |
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for which i have the excellent short blade tool which recently allowed me to sharpen portable planer blades off a makita plane.
Hoping there might be some info on whether there are recognisable differences in body style that'll help identify some of the "unmarked". No matter if there isn't though - I got it for the chapter on how they were made and the special tools used. I'm such a sad geek... 
