If you were an Emmgrant

[mrspanton]

Lets imagine we are wood worker's about to leave the UK as emigrant's to find our fortune in some foriegn place (where there isnt any tool manufacturing industry so to speak but there are blacksmith's). We are limited as to how many tool's we would be able to take due to weight and baggage restrictions. Lets imagine this is in the era before power tools, elestictrickery, aircraft etc. What would you be most likely to take? What would you leave? Limited to say 30 tools max?

My basic list would be:-

Ripsaw (blade only)
crosscut saw (blade only)
(Frame saw types, with self made oak frames)
Side axe
Froe
saw files
plumb bob
marking guage
Try square
dividers
3xchisles, small med large
Claw hammer
Brace and 4 bits
scrub plane
jack plane
sharpening stone

Some stuff (eg mallets and maul's, wood wedges for cleaving, saw-horses, clamps, shaving horse, chopping block and riving brakes, bench etc would get made on arrival) And get the smithy to do extra plane blade's, chisel's, etc

[engineerone]

not very optimistic are you mr s,?

seaton took a lot more in his chest off to america ;D

i have also seen those photos of the swiss ex apprentices who go off around the country with their knapsacks.

a lot would i think depend on what you intended to make,
and what you knew about the materials that would be available when you arrived.

but what about sharpening?

paul

[mrgrimsdale]

plus tenon saw, nail punch, lump hammer.
Wouldn't need a scrub plane if there were sawmills, or just sawyers, supplying timber
I often think there should be a law against anyone learning woodwork with any more tools than absolutely necessary, like your list.
Then when they can do just about everything they could treat themselves to another chisel or 2 - but they probably could manage without them by then ;D

cheers
Jacob

[dom]

Folding rule ?

[dirtydeeds]

no festool shops?, im not going there

[mrspanton]

engineerone said:

not very optimistic are you mr s,?

seaton took a lot more in his chest off to america ;D

i have also seen those photos of the swiss ex apprentices who go off around the country with their knapsacks.

a lot would i think depend on what you intended to make,
and what you knew about the materials that would be available when you arrived.

but what about sharpening?

paul

I included a saw file and a stone, but I must admit its a bit of a mystery, how did the pioneer carpenters keep there saw's sharp (unless they knew how to make file's, or had a different method? Seeing as files wear out quite quick?
Who was seaton?
I suppose some had specialised trades (cooper's, chairmaker, fine furniture, timber framer's, wagon or cart maker's, pattern maker's etc would have a tool kit slanted to there particular useages. I was sort of considering what would be the most basic essential kit you could do the basic's with.
I'd stillstick with the scrub plane Jacob ;D Far too useful on riven planks

[engineerone]

mr s .
seaton was one of the carpenters who subsequently became famous because someone found his tool box and most of its contents, and it is displayed in i think the smithsonian museum in america. FWW have displayed it and its contents often.

the interesting thing is the way in which all the tools fit in such a small space.

i would guess that before the invention of hand sized stones, everybody would go to their local blacksmith and hope to use his wheel, maybe they paid for the sharpening by providing the hand power

certainly almost all farms had some kind of rotating wheel since thay helped with their axes etc. i also know that a scythe man tended to have a small stone, but am not sure how old they are.

obviously arkansas and dakota stones are only post the american civil war, since before then it was not possible to find the stones, and mine them.

paul

[paulchapman]

mrspanton said:

Who was seaton?

Mike Wenzloff makes a range of saws based on those made by John Kenyon and which were found in the Seaton tool chest www.wenzloffandsons.com/saws/kenyon.html

Cheers

Paul

[mikew]

mrspanton said:

engineerone said:

seaton took a lot more in his chest off to america

Who was seaton?

Benjamin Seaton never did leave England. Speculation based upon some of the contents suggests he was intended to leave for America when his father died and he took over the family's businesses.

If you can waddle through the info about me, the following links have a bit about Seaton in them. The book refered to in these articles is available on-line and I think TATHS has recently found some more that had been in storage.

The chest as far as I know is now back in England.

www.popularwoodworking.com/articledisplay?id=14782

www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/cSchwarz/z_art/wenzloff/wenzloff1.asp

Take care, Mike--who would take a chest of tools similar to Seaton's or Phyfe's along with the contents. There are too many examples of similar chests and lists of tools that made their way around the world for these very reasons. That is, if I was building furniture.

[mrgrimsdale]

mrspanton said:

snip
I included a saw file and a stone, but I must admit its a bit of a mystery, how did the pioneer carpenters keep there saw's sharp (unless they knew how to make file's, or had a different method? Seeing as files wear out quite quick?
snip

The pioneer sailors took enough stuff and skills, including blacksmiths, to build a new ship if needs be. There are lots of accounts of spectacular repairs/rebuilds in far away places such as deserted islands near Tierra del Fuego. A few saw files would be no prob.
The settlers would do the same if they had any sense. The only material not available except by import would be iron itself as I believe iron hadn't been discovered in pre Columbian America, although other metals were known.

cheers
Jacob

[TonyW]

Well I think it would have to be the Studley Tool Chest - so many tools, most of which I would not have a clue about. Therefore would have to take a team of craftsmen or women as well ;D

Cheers ;D
Tony
Edit: Just realised 30 tools max. So there would be 10 of us in the team for 300 tools in the chest

[mrspanton]

engineerone said:

i would guess that before the invention of hand sized stones, everybody would go to their local blacksmith and hope to use his wheel, maybe they paid for the sharpening by providing the hand power

certainly almost all farms had some kind of rotating wheel since thay helped with their axes etc. i also know that a scythe man tended to have a small stone, but am not sure how old they are.

obviously arkansas and dakota stones are only post the american civil war, since before then it was not possible to find the stones, and mine them.

paul

Just on a not quite related side note, I remember reading one time that many years ago before mechanical harvester's were invented and when they harvested wheat with a gang of men using scythes, they had a sharpener that was a wooden handle with hard talow or some such smeared on it, and fine sand embededded into the tallow and which they then used to refine the edge every so often

[kaaskop]

dirtydeeds said:

no festool shops?, im not going there

no money too? Cuba

[craigmarshall]

I haven't fully thought this through, but here is the first 15 items on my list:

Rip saw
Crosscut saw
Jack plane
1" Chisel
1/4" chisel
Marking knife
Coarse/fine dmt stone
Scraper
Brace and ...
1/4" bit
3/8" bit
1" bit
Small axe
Drawknife
Spokeshave

And assuming when I get there I have a never ending supply of wood and glue, here is what I'd make first (Not necessarily in order):

Square
Plumb bob
mallet
marking guage
clamps
vise
bench
saw horses
toolbox
treadle lathe

That still only comes to 25! I have surely missed some important stuff out.

Craig

[wrongnail]

craigmarshall said:

That still only comes to 25! I have surely missed some important stuff out.

Craig

Somewhere to work maybe; like building your shed first!
;D

John

[craigmarshall]

Wrongnail,

I new there would be something obvious!

Craig