Are you a diamond user ???

[gazza]

Hi all, Happy New Year to you !!! and many more !!!

Are you a diamond stone user ??

I am thinking of investing in a couple of DMT diamond stones
duosharp and the new Extra extra fine 8000 grit ;D
What i am pondering is,

I have a tormek 2006 so the inital grind is taken care of,
I am considering the duosharp, but what size ??

with the 8" being just over 2.5" i am wondering how it would cope with a no 8 plane blade ??

the Extra extra fine is 3" wide so shouldnt be a problem

The 10" x 4" is more fit for the purpose, but is a bit more hard earned ££
Another thing i am unsure of is what grit ??

I dont think i need an extra course grit so i can choose either,
course 325 grit / fine 600 grit.
fine 600 grit / extra fine 1200 grit.
I would appreciate any advise regarding grits.

The 8" x 3" Extra extra fine was mentioned in a previous thread, but there was no comments on its performance, ie does the edge still need stropped after using it??

Again any advise /recomendations are much valued.

Many thanks,
Cheers,
Gazza.

[engineerone]

i seem to have tonnes of sharpening equipment, on that rocky slope i have a couple of duo sharp diamonds, and use them like you intend to after the grind on my tormek.

i guess in regard to the plane a lot depends on whether you are intending to make it curved, if you think about it, a curved blade would not need to be as wide as the stone

have to say though seems to me the most important bit is devising a proper form of honing after sharpening, whilst the tormek leather wheel is good, i find now that if i then go to a flat leather strop and polish, at the moment i use dmt, but autosol is i am told good also. this is particularly helpful in removing the wire edge on the back(flat )side.

remember the whole thing with a tormek is you end up with a curved bevel, whilst the dmt will by its nature make it flatter, but it does take longer before you need to regrind.

i have found the green and red are useful, but if you are going to buy the 8000, then the green is a little unnecessary.

paul

[dom]

I use the DMT and find them excellent

[andy]

Gazza

Depends upon you regime

I use the Tormek to re furbish the primary angle and then use 1200 and 8000 DMT diamond stones to hone and re-hone the cutting edge
(8x3 continuous diamond)

To flatten the backs of new tools (depending how flat they are)
I use 325,600,1200 and then 8000

Andy

[paulchapman]

I use the DMT polka dot stones in coarse, fine and extra fine. Can't afford a Tormek so I use the stones for primary and secondary bevels. I reckon that if you have a Tormek you need only the fine and extra fine. Mine are all 8"x3", which is the best size for wide plane blades I think. I use a leather strop with jewellers rouge for final finishing and I think you could probably benefit from stropping the blades even if you had the Extra, extra fine stone (but I've not used that stone).

Incidentally, I use WD40 or 3-in-1 oil on my diamond stones - much better and less messy than water in my view, and no worries about rust.

Cheers

Paul

[mel]

paul . thought you wer'nt mean't to use oil on a dmt diamond stone . could be wrong thou.

i've a selection of diamond sharpeners all are good
the prices of these have come down now owing to popularity

still use my oil stones for a really fine edge

[andy]

WD40 is OK to use

I use this bit expensive lasts a long time though and not messy


Andy

[engineerone]

like andy i use the trend diamond stuff which was designed by a guy who used to work for the old dmt importer here.

as for oil, there is some concern in someplaces about deterioration of the plastic, but i think paul has been using wd 40 long enough not to worry about the longevity ;D

definately a leather strop/hone is valuable even after a hone on the tormek leather wheel.

paul

[jake]

mel said:

paul . thought you wer'nt mean't to use oil on a dmt diamond stone . could be wrong thou.

It's a popular myth, DMT themselves say in their FAQ:

I know it says to use the sharpener dry or with water, but can I use oil anyway? Can I store my DMT stone in kerosene?

While we recommend you use DMT® products dry or with water only, it is acceptable to use a variety of lubricants when sharpening with DMT® products. Mineral oil, mineral spirits, kerosene, WD40 can all be used without harming your DMT® sharpener. We do not recommend storing your DMT sharpener in kerosene. DMT® recommends that you always wipe your Diamond and Unbreakable Ceramic Sharpeners clean and store dry after use.

[jake]

Oh, I should've clicked on Andy's link before posting rather than after!

[paulchapman]

mel said:

paul . thought you wer'nt mean't to use oil on a dmt diamond stone . could be wrong thou.

I've had my DMT stones for many years. The first time I used one I tried water but didn't like it so tried WD40 and found it much better. I've used WD40 or 3-in-1 ever since and had no problems whatsoever. I know several other people who also use oil on theirs and they have no problems either.

Apart from oil working better than water, in my view, the problem of having to dry water off everything to avoid rust on the blades, honing guides and stones, is just too much of a palava and I can't be bothered with it all.

Cheers

Paul

[Alf]

Like Paul I started with water on my DMT, didn't like the rust issue, switched to paraffin oil (lamp oil actually, 'cos it doesn't smell and upset me delicate nose ). Been using it for, ooo, years an' years now with no problems. It makes more sense anyway, as I then go onto oil stones for fine honing. For waterstone users it might be safer to stick with the H₂0 to avoid contamination.

As to which grits, that's so dependent on individual sharpening practices and what you want in "sharp" that I wouldn't like to say. But the width of the stone is one great big red herring; you don't need a plane blade as wide as the board to plane it flat, and you don't need a stone as wide as a plane blade to make it sharp.

Cheers, Alf

[gazza]

Thanks for the replies,
Seems a selection of them all wouldnt go a miss ;D

Andy what do you think of the 8000 grit continuous stone ? do you still need a strop after it, or is it ready to use straight away.

As regards sharp Alf , the sharper the better, but speed is of the essence bigger surface area -- less hassle or am i wrong ?

Dom thanks for your wisdom ;D ;D ;D ;D

Paul & Paul, the use of a flat leather strop makes a big difference then ?

I generally use the tormek for sharpening my chisels and straight to work, perhaps touch them up with very fine wet and dry before they need the tormek again.

Plane blades i regrind on the tormek and then a hone with very fine wet and dry, I have never had any problems with this method

The diamond stones would be a lot easier and quicker to use than wet and dry, and quite handy to take on site, as the tormek is not very suitable for throwing in the tool bag !!

The green and red will be purchased i think, but as to the 8000 i shall await any good or bad recomendations from the man who has one
Cheers,
Gazza.

[Alf]

gazza said:

As regards sharp Alf , the sharper the better, but speed is of the essence bigger surface area -- less hassle or am i wrong ?

Depends. D'you use a guide? If not then I don't think there's much in it. Might as well save the lettuce.

Cheers, Alf

[dom]

gazza said:

Dom thanks for your wisdom ;D ;D ;D ;D

Must learn to expand, must learn to expand

[gazza]

toobyefore said:

Depends. D'you use a guide? If not then I don't think there's much in it. Might as well save the lettuce.

good point !!

Cheers,
Gazza.
Your humble Glasshopper ;D

[engineerone]

as an avid tormek user i thought i had it sussed, but before xmas colin showed me that just a little more work on a flat strop really made the edge "sharp"

i always hone on the tormek leather wheel, but now have added the extra step just to lengthen the time between easy cutting and just a little more strain.

paul

[paulchapman]

gazza said:

Paul the use of a flat leather strop makes a big difference then ?

Yes, a big difference I use a piece of leather glued to some MDF and use jewellers rouge and Vaseline on it



I leave the blade in the honing guide and give a few strokes on the strop then take it out and do the back side. It gives a mirror finish. Getting a really sharp edge is all about getting rid of the scratches and getting the two sides of the blade to meet at a point of nothingness. Dead easy and fast. Whatever stone you use, the strop will improve on it, but keep the blade flat and don't round over the edge.

Cheers

Paul

[afterglow]

Hmm, this stropping malarky is worth the bother then?

Coming back to my workshop after a 4yr break, I see the edges of blades sharpened on my tormek seem to have a slight "crumbly" texture to them that I don't seem to be able to remove completely, although I'm getting better edges than I used to (just spending more time grinding with the wheel in fine mode and then doing a better job on the leather wheel)

I presume that's the wire and I'm not getting rid of it properly?

I also suspect that I'm not getting anywhere near the best from the Tormek yet - I did an amazing job on a chef's knife and that clearly has no dodgy edge on it. Hmm, maybe I'll have to watch the youtube video demo of chisel sharpening again.

Secondly, Paul - you use jeweller's rouge on your strop. I got some green stuff from Axminster to use on my strop - is that too coarse for the kind of fine edges we're after here?

Finally, just to get back on topic for Gazza, I'm really impressed with the DMT stones I got many years ago as my second attempt at getting sharper blades. It's only the blue one (coarse) but it really is great for initial bevels. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them, especially for taking around on site work with you, since they're small and convenient. In truth though, do you really need THAT sharp an edge for your site work? Just wondering like...


Cheers,

Lee

[paulchapman]

afterglow said:

Paul - you use jeweller's rouge on your strop. I got some green stuff from Axminster to use on my strop - is that too coarse for the kind of fine edges we're after here?

Lee, the sticks of honing compound come in various grades (denoted by the colour). Jewellers rouge is the finest. However, it won't be significantly different from the green stuff you are using. Some people use Solvol Autosol metal polish which they reckon is also good.

Are you doing all your stropping on the leather wheel? If so, I wonder if you are rounding over the edge, which would spoil it. You will get a nice polish but it won't be sharp. I sometimes use wheels for the shaped bevel parts of combination type blades like this



But I use a flat stone and strop for the rest of the blade so as to ensure that the edge is not rounded over. That wheel is MDF with some polishing compound.

Cheers

Paul

[gazza]

afterglow said:

In truth though, do you really need THAT sharp an edge for your site work? Just wondering like...

Of course you do when your a perfectionist

Lee, the tormek can round over the edge very quickly on the leather wheel, as Paul has quite rightly mentioned
I normally just give a few revolutions for the chisel, any more and its as shiny as the dogs b*lls but frustrating and useless to use.

The difference it makes to give the blade of a plane a few strokes on even 1500 wet and dry is definitely worth the effort,

I shall be acquiring a leather strop as and when i can, i wonder can you use the honing compound from the tormek, or is it not fine enough ??

Paul, do you go straight from the green 1200grit diamond stone to the strop ?? as i am wondering if the 8000 grit is worth the expense.
Initially i thought that it would have gave me a polished edge.

Many thanks for your help and advise
Cheers,
Gazza

[paulchapman]

gazza said:

Paul, do you go straight from the green 1200grit diamond stone to the strop ?? as i am wondering if the 8000 grit is worth the expense.
Initially i thought that it would have gave me a polished edge.

Yes - I haven't seen the Extra, extra fine stone but I'm sure it won't give as good a finish as a strop. But it would probably be good to go from the Extra fine to the Extra, extra fine, then the strop. It all comes down to cost really - and I'm happy with the edges I get.

Cheers

Paul

[nickw]

I go straight from a Fine diamond stone to a strop, using Tormek gunk. Works fine for me. I may choose to use something less expensive though when the aforementioned gunk runs out.

EDIT: Well actually I go via a ceramic stone - kind of forgot that step

[colincott]

I notice no one mentioned Eze-lap diamond stone.

I have found that they are cheaper than the DMT but I still have the first one that I got about 11 or 12 years ago.

Tilgear ( 01707 873434 no website but give them a ring )is a good place to get them and they also do the double sided ones too

[mel]

guess who hasnt been keeping an eye on the posts colin

www.tilgear.info/