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Post by engineerone on Mar 6, 2008 19:15:31 GMT
seeing that no one else has picked up on it  dom you 're not a collector, i'm sure you bought all those hand tools thinking you were gonna use them, then found that without the power cable, they did not work too well. anyone who has bought a domino has little need to use a hand plane ;D your secret it safe dom  paul  |
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Post by tellurian on Mar 6, 2008 19:43:21 GMT
Guys, softly, softly, eh? You've got to get the guy firmly on The Slope first, far enough down so he can't scramble back over the edge - and only then do you start getting into all the planes you need, different cambers, jointing edges etc etc. Softly softly catchee monkey... Cheers, Alf Hmm, I seem to remember a sharp shove in the back and then someone stamping on my fingers as I hung over the edge.  |
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Mar 6, 2008 19:47:15 GMT
So nobody likes the 5? Never had a 5. Mine's a Record 5 1/2 which I really like and use a lot. Didn't think they would be that different.
You can only get pricey Clifton or Lie Neilson 5 1/2s in the latest APTC cat
cheers
Jacob
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Post by paulchapman on Mar 6, 2008 19:54:13 GMT
I think old Jacob must be weakening - he's browsing the tool catalogues  ;D |
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Post by dom on Mar 6, 2008 19:56:57 GMT
You know, I do have several hand planes and yes I can use them.
Most of my work is done on a planer and thicknesser, this is for speed rather than the satisfaction of hearing a whispering hand plane.
But I wonder, if the cost of my machinery was compared to the multitude of planes owned by some,which would be the dearest.
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Post by paulchapman on Mar 6, 2008 20:01:08 GMT
But I wonder, if the cost of my machinery was compared to the multitude of planes owned by some,which would be the dearest. Shhhhhhhhhh ;D ;D |
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Post by engineerone on Mar 6, 2008 20:21:09 GMT
dom, you've been listening to the wife after she's come back from the sales " i saved 50 pounds on this ;D" thing is you never consider the cost of all the tools, only what you see as the initial price, plus of course with most machines, you have replaceables, like planer knives, sharpening etc, and of course electricity. but you are right, if you are careful with the machines you purchase, you can come in at about the same price as some collections of hand tools. and without practice, you can cut more accurately on most power tools ie table and cross cut saw. paul |
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Mar 6, 2008 20:32:24 GMT
I think old Jacob must be weakening - he's browsing the tool catalogues ;D It only arrived today- I was lighting the fire with it ;D ;D cheers Jacob |
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Post by jfc on Mar 6, 2008 20:40:32 GMT
See my post on axminster cutter block for £3500 I think machine costs are alot more than hand tools but then they earn the money ........ Once you have used hand tools and know what you are doing !
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Post by thallow on Mar 6, 2008 20:57:17 GMT
Wow seems to be a popular topic  Thanks for the reponse, so after reading all above can I humbly ask if i am correct in concluding the following (in no order) 1 With A jack plane or similar it is possible to go from a rough sawn piece of timber to a perfectly flat smooth surface, the only "problem" with this is that i would need to keep adjusting the blade? 2 The natural "result" is for a longer length of timber to be humpbacked if I simply planed flat - therefore I need to compensate by scooping out the centre of the length (as it were!)  3 The planed surface will naturally be parallel to bench top (ie if the timber is at an angle then so will the planed surface be)? 4 This slope is very slippy, I just tried to stand up and fell flat on my a**e 5 Putting the plane at an angle (ie left or right) is not a good idea? [but why i am not sure!] 6 Everbody does it differently? 7 Nobody likes a number 5 plane - that is what I have just bought, is this a trick by all of you to make me go out and buy another and in doing so slip further and faster thanks for the g8t advice tho, I will be havin a go again at t'weekend so I will let you know how I get on! Cheers ;D |
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Post by engineerone on Mar 6, 2008 21:11:17 GMT
my 2 p. 1-7 are all about right but with a little modification to the thought process. you could use one plane all the way through, others have, however it require more regular adjustment, hence the advice to get more than one. if you have two saw cut edges from a known source, then it is possible to plane the surfaces flat without a hump, and then move onto the next stage of the other two sides. if however, you are starting with a piece that is rough all the way around then you need to think about the other advice. i think for many people the 5 is an odd one, it seems you either prefer a 4 1/2 or a 5 1/2 not least i think because of the width of the blade. which is the same width as the bigger ones ie 7 and 8. i was always directed towards either a 41/2 or a 51/2 when i asked at the beginning within the recent 10 years. anyway your ride down the slope is only gentle so far, we have not actually added any grease, just given you a direction ;D as for angling the plane, i think often it does help, since grain does not always go straight down the board unless you have cut it specifically to do so, thus you can avoid certain wierd grain changes and thus make the cutting easier. interestingly some time ago at ally pally i saw a young kid being offered the chance to try a clifton, after his dad had talked to mike, and the first thing he did was angle the plane across the wood. confused me too, since even now i rarely do that, especially not at the beginning of the process. paul |
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Mar 6, 2008 21:13:04 GMT
snip 1 With A jack plane or similar it is possible to go from a rough sawn piece of timber to a perfectly flat smooth surface, the only "problem" with this is that i would need to keep adjusting the blade? Yes (and sharpen it)Yes, but more you need to pay close attention to what's actually happeningBit of a myth the flat bench thing else how would you be able to plane a curly bit which wouldn't lie flat on your perfectly flat bench? You've got to be able to support it but the flatness is achieved with hand and eye skills, nowt to do with the bench underneathcos it looks really amateurish and means that you need a smaller plane all the best Jacob |
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Post by paulchapman on Mar 6, 2008 21:48:45 GMT
1 With A jack plane or similar it is possible to go from a rough sawn piece of timber to a perfectly flat smooth surface, the only "problem" with this is that i would need to keep adjusting the blade? If you are going to plane rough, sawn wood (particularly hard stuff like oak) then I would get yourself a couple of old planes and set them up with a steeply cambered blade. I have three like this - a #7, a #5.5 and a small one about the size of a #3. This is by far the best way to remove wood quickly, effectively and with minimum effort. With a blade set up for "normal" planing, you will be there all day, get bloody knackered and probably give up. Chris Schwarz wrote a piece about setting up a #6 fore plane like this in his blog recently. Well worth a read www.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/Sharpen+A+Fore+Plane.aspxCheers Paul |
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Post by Alf on Mar 7, 2008 8:53:16 GMT
Thanks for the reponse, so after reading all above can I humbly ask if i am correct in concluding the following (in no order) 1 With A jack plane or similar it is possible to go from a rough sawn piece of timber to a perfectly flat smooth surface, the only "problem" with this is that i would need to keep adjusting the blade? Yep 2 The natural "result" is for a longer length of timber to be humpbacked if I simply planed flat - therefore I need to compensate by scooping out the centre of the length (as it were!) Yep 3 The planed surface will naturally be parallel to bench top (ie if the timber is at an angle then so will the planed surface be)? Not necessarily. However, one benefit of having the work flat and level is it takes advantage of one's natural ability to judge when things are plumb. It's easier to get 90° or 180° than 67°, f'rinstance. So if you wanted 67°, it makes sense to adjust the work so that 67° is actually at 90 or 180 (if that makes any sense at all, which is doubtful. Bit the worse for wear this morning...) 4 This slope is very slippy, I just tried to stand up and fell flat on my a**e <Churchill dog voice>Oh yes 5 Putting the plane at an angle (ie left or right) is not a good idea? [but why i am not sure!] Ah, well, it is a good idea in some cases. And not a good idea in others. It's a complicated thing and involves things like lowering the effective cutting angle and stuff. 6 Everbody does it differently? 7 Nobody likes a number 5 plane - that is what I have just bought, is this a trick by all of you to make me go out and buy another and in doing so slip further and faster Could be that we've been rumbled...  Cheers, Alf |
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Post by Alf on Mar 7, 2008 8:55:13 GMT
Guys, softly, softly, eh? You've got to get the guy firmly on The Slope first, far enough down so he can't scramble back over the edge - and only then do you start getting into all the planes you need, different cambers, jointing edges etc etc. Softly softly catchee monkey... Cheers, Alf Hmm, I seem to remember a sharp shove in the back and then someone stamping on my fingers as I hung over the edge. Never laid a finger on 'im, guv. ;D |
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Post by dom on Mar 7, 2008 12:19:07 GMT
No, but your were egging Chapman on ;D
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Post by paulchapman on Mar 7, 2008 12:41:07 GMT
No, but your were egging Chapman on ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by Alf on Mar 7, 2008 13:27:35 GMT
As if he needs encouragement... ;D
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Post by tellurian on Mar 7, 2008 20:21:55 GMT
Inspector Plowright investigates…
Inspector Plowright and Constable Notch are standing next to the body of a man. He is alive but unconscious. He is lying at the foot of a steep incline and obviously in torment as a thin stream of drool runs down his chin onto the floor and he mutters incomprehensibly to himself.
“Now Notch, I think we have both seen this before and the obvious signs are pointing to only one possible perpetrator.”
“Wot signs are those then sarh?”
“Look at the bruising on the shoulders. The poor soul has been grasped from behind by fingers that are both strong and dextrous.”
“Yes sarh.”
“Commensurate with the hands that would belong to a person of uncommon skill, strength and ability. One that has for years been the user of hand tools and has acquired the hand and finger strength that goes with the long familiarity of such tools”
“Yes sarh, excuse me sarh, wot’s commensooratt sarh?”
Inspector Plowright is on a roll and ignoring his erstwhile constable pulls his favourite magnifying glass from his pocket, a Moore and Wright ‘The Copper’s Friend.” He kneels close to the man and examines him closely through the magnifying glass.
“And can you see the fine flecks of sawdust that cling to the hapless chap’s clothing?”
“No sarh.”
“Obviously, the victim was assailed by a hand tool user that favours the delights of the working of wood, and” he bends closer and sniffs the air around the man, “Judging by the lack of any odour that would be associated with machinery, I say that this person eschews the use of such things.”
“Bless you sarh.”
“Now observe these scorch marks, here and here.” He says pointing out places on the poor unfortunate’s nether regions.
“This chap has obviously been propelled at great speed along a surface, and, if you see here.” Constable Notch is then pointed to some greasy streaks on the victim’s clothing. “You will observe some greasy marks that if I am any judge of such things, which of course I am, having recently published a monograph on these substances, is a fine paste wax commonly used by those who engage in the making of fine furniture. This leads me to believe…”
Constable Notch looked on in awe as his mentor continued.
“I believe that we are dealing with that cunning artificer, know by the nom de guerre of ‘The Collector! That fiend who wantonly and without fear and without regard for the sensibilities of those thrown to their doom is single-handedly responsible for the blight that has afflicted our fair nation.”
Constable Notch gasps.
“And unless I’m very much mistaken, I believe I can move from belief to certainty.”
With a flourish, Inspector Plowright produces a small vial of a fine white powder. This he sprinkles lightly on the floor whilst instructing his protégé to “Look carefully Notch”. Notch’s eyes widen as words appear on the floor surrounding the victim. Strange words of seemingly great power.
“Do you see those words?” Plowright asks. “Written in his desperation in his own spittle. These are the names of the suppliers of high quality woodworking handtools, Lie Nielson, Veritas, Stanley, oh sorry, that one is crossed out, Philly, Auriou, wait, I do not see the likes of Marples, Sorby or even Norris.” He shakes his head slowly” “I fear this man has far yet to travel.
At the mention of these names, the wretched victim stirs and his muttering increases in strength and volume until it becomes audible. A long drawn out wail begins. “Toooooools. Toooooools. Need more toooooooools. Tooooooools”.
“Alas Notch, he may have travelled fast down yonder slope but I fear that in his tormented mind he still falls. The skilfully greased slope has been laid as trap for this poor soul and I feel that he has fallen victim to this fiend and that he will find that his stopping to peer down that far slope most infelicitous.”
“Ain’t seen my sister here today sarh.”
Suddenly Plowright brings his face as close as he could without touching and peers through his glass. “Look, the final proof. Look closely notch, this evidence removes all doubt and proves that what I suspect, is indeed true. Diamond dust, the remnants of diamond paste, the very stuff that The Collector will use to entice these poor souls down this slope. This poor fool is the latest of many and I fear that there will be many more after him”
Suddenly our brave seekers of truth and justice are frozen as if in rigour as a wailing, that could have come from the very banshees of Cherubini rings out.
“Bwaaahahahahaha My work here is done Bwaaahahahahahahahahahahahah”
The cry fades but is left ringing in the ears of the policemen and Inspector Plowright hangs his head, whispering “How many more, how many more must there be?”
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Post by paulchapman on Mar 7, 2008 20:31:52 GMT
;D
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Post by thallow on Mar 7, 2008 20:37:23 GMT
;D ;D ;D Fabulous Tellurian.......and I am on my own in the house tonight (nervously glances over shoulder)  BOO  |
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Post by engineerone on Mar 7, 2008 20:47:00 GMT
well crafted piece, almost as good as the furniture as for you alone in the house, well we are sending all the right vibes, you must decide whether to respond or not ;D paul |
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Post by Alf on Mar 8, 2008 9:58:33 GMT
;D ;D ;D "his favourite magnifying glass from his pocket, a Moore and Wright ‘The Copper’s Friend.'" ;D ;D ;D A swift bop on the noggin with a Dodeca-Gauge and a scribble of candle wax on the soles of the boots and another one bites the dust. Or so I believe. No personal experience of course... Cheers, Alf |
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Post by evergreen on Mar 9, 2008 20:41:51 GMT
Tellurian
Your post was a damn sight more entertaining than most TV progs this weekend! Many thanks.
Regards.
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Post by tellurian on Mar 9, 2008 21:01:57 GMT
Glad you all liked it. I was (ahem) working from home on Friday and (ahem) at a bit of a loose end. Just wondering what Inspector Plowright and his trust sidekick should investigate next? |
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