why different saw types

[engineerone]

checking out the hand saw handle thread, i noticed that the link to chris schwarz talked about 3or 4 different types of cross cut saws.

so the question is why??

i can kind of understand dovetail saws, i can also understand
a basic cross cut saw, but why tenon?? panel saws etc.

also why different tpi, what does it do??

paul

[dunbarhamlin]

It's tied in to efficiency of cut and function.
The more tpi, the less waste each gullet can remove (and therefore each tooth cut) before clogging. So the optimum number of teeth per inch is determined by the length of the kerf to be cut. (I forget, but I think about 8 teeth in the stock at any one time is the usual target)

Similarly, for efficient cutting, the saw wants to be long enough to make full use of available swing. This is longer if using a saw bench, with the stuff held under the knee (I use a 28" rip saw and 26" hand saw,) than if working at a cabinet bench, where a panel saw is more practical (I use a 20").

Similarly, dimensioning stock commonly requires a cut longer than it is deep, and for efficient cutting an angle of 45/60 degrees, which makes a back saw impractical. For (fine) joinery, with shorter cuts, using a saw stiffened with a brass/steel back allows a thinner saw plate, and therefore thinner kerf.

Just like a beer fridge, usually the biggest saw that'll do the job is generally best - unless you want excercise greater control for a more delicate cut.

Cheers
Steve

[mrgrimsdale]

engineerone said:

checking out the hand saw handle thread, i noticed that the link to chris schwarz talked about 3or 4 different types of cross cut saws.

so the question is why??

i can kind of understand dovetail saws, i can also understand
a basic cross cut saw, but why tenon?? panel saws etc.

also why different tpi, what does it do??

paul

His 'tenon' isn't a crosscut it's a rip cut, for tenon cheeks. So he also needs a 'carcass' saw for crosscuts on shoulders etc.
What we normally call a 'tenon' saw is for both, so you'd expect less fleam, but not filed 90 deg across; in between.
Panel saw is for, guess what, cutting panels, which are a major item in trad joinery before ply, but is still useful for cutting ply. So it must be backless (or it wouldn't go through), have fewer tpi for finer cut (thin stuff) and an in between tooth so it will rip and crosscut. Doesn't need to be as long or as heavy as a backless crosscut which is for thicker stuff. Ripping thicker stuff needs a backless rip saw, but most of us make do with a 26" ish inbetweeny which will do both

cheers
Jacob
PS unlike Steve I'd never use a 'hand' saw (i.e. backless) on stuff on a bench, but always over 2 saw stools, held down with knee, or sometimes g clamp or 2.
PS Chris Schwarz goes on about saw stools somewhere but I wouldn't recommend his design as it is dangerous i.e. if used as a step up (as they are - it's their important 2ary function) it can tip over if you are too near the end. Better if the feet spread beyond the top, which makes them inherently stable:

[jfc]

That dog looks spoilt for choise ;D

[dunbarhamlin]

Agree, Jacob, a saw bench is best, but unfortunately I'm yet to convince anyone that a saw bench is de rigeur in the boudoir (still struggling to keep the work bench in the bedroom) so sometimes it's just handy to have a backless saw at the bench

And other times it is more practical (e.g., was ripping 3/8" off of the thickness of some 20" long 5"x3"ash blanks today, and haven't figured out a decent way to attach stuff that short to my saw bench without risking teeth or flesh)

(Dammit, OK, just have, maybe - could use a big wooden handscrew - though only have cute sized ones at the mo)

[mrgrimsdale]

jfc said:

That dog looks spoilt for choise ;D

Nah eez ad is bits off. Dunt stop im shaggin the sofa for some reason. No accounting for taste
cheers
Jacob
He's looking pleased with himself cos he thinks he's herded them into a corner and now they daren't move.

[dunbarhamlin]

Well I'd herd of saw horses, but never seen a flock of saw sheep before

[engineerone]

he's not hearding them, he's heard that they are the dog's b*****ks, and is looking to get them back ;D

paul

[mrgrimsdale]

dunbarhamlin said:

ripping 3/8" off of the thickness of some 20" long 5"x3"ash blanks today, and haven't figured out a decent way to attach stuff that short to my saw bench without risking teeth or flesh

Much easier with a pair of saw stools you don't need to attach anything you just move the workpiece across/between etc and hold down with your knee.
Saw stools and bench hooks are essential accessories. You can't saw properly or easily without them IMHO.

cheers
Jacob