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Post by engineerone on Oct 8, 2007 20:53:08 GMT
interesting mate i thought it was only necessary to show that either the tools were new, or had been serviced properly within the last year  course one way out is i guess to make sure the workers provide their own hand tools since they are supposed to be tested now. i understand the testing of fixed machinery, but do you have to provide training certificates too? bit cheaper than paying compensation though  paul  |
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Post by davyowen on Oct 8, 2007 22:19:15 GMT
Well put it this way, how much would you have to shell out if one of your workers lost a finger/hand?
A belt from a light switch is nothing if you are well insulated, but what about a belt from a spindle-moulder that causes your hand to jerk into the moving cutter... It's an expense that isn't justified until things go tits up, at which point you are glad you shelled out because it's just saved your bacon.
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Post by Scrit on Oct 9, 2007 21:09:59 GMT
course one way out is i guess to make sure the workers provide their own hand tools since they are supposed to be tested now. Interestingly it isn't. My understanding is that if you are responsible for a site, then ensuring that power tools have a current PAT test is your responsibility, even if the "employees" are price-work subbies. All hire shops now have a PAT tester and all tools are checked on return to the shop after a hire to ensure that some muppet hasn't cut through or crushed through the earthing, etc. thus creating an electrocution risk. Large site employers have started to follow suit in recent times. Scrit |
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Post by engineerone on Oct 9, 2007 21:59:03 GMT
why oh why do i have to learn such things in such a public space ;D ;D it does seem strange to me that you can be held responsible for the tools provided by your polish subbies  my polish chippie mate gets really peed off when he gets one rate for the day, but has to provide his own tools, whilst painters in london now seem to get a similar rate without providing much in the way of tools  paul |
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Post by Scrit on Oct 9, 2007 22:35:18 GMT
I reckon that all that's really happened is that they've tightened up the duty of care thing. UK sites were traditionally 110 volt (55 volt centre tapped) so you can't electrocute yourself - at least not easily - but the EU insist we allow 240 volt and not everyone uses RCDs (which are mandatory)...... If you have someone working on your premises then their safety becomes your responsibility, even if that is diminished by contractual agreement. You'll find on bigger sites that no-one is allowed to use corded tools at all unless they are owned by the site contractor. Although you can do a heck of a lot of damage to yourself with a Passy (for the uninitiated a Passlode cordless pneumatic nail gun - which uses a combustible propellant instead of compressed air) if you are stupid enough. And some people are...... And even the celebs can get it wrong(OK I know they're pneumatics, but the principle is the same) Scrit |
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Post by paulchapman on Oct 10, 2007 15:57:10 GMT
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Post by Alf on Oct 10, 2007 17:30:51 GMT
UK sites were traditionally 110 volt (55 volt centre tapped) so you can't electrocute yourself - at least not easily - but the EU insist we allow 240 volt Really? I didn't realise that. I do wish someone would see the sense of somehow putting a system in place that allows us to ignore EU regs when they're worse than the existing ones. What am I saying? Seeing sense? I'm in a dream world...  Cheers, Alf |
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Post by paulchapman on Oct 10, 2007 17:51:23 GMT
Well the rest of Europe seems to ignore the EU regs when they don't like them - it's only our lot that seem hell bent on implementing them Cheers Paul |
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Post by engineerone on Oct 10, 2007 18:00:31 GMT
as degaulle said how can you govern a country that makes so many cheeses the frogs certainly seem to ignore what they do not like scrit, what is the situation with air tools how often do you need to get them checked, and if so by whom, and how long do the various certificates last. paul |
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Post by Scrit on Oct 10, 2007 18:13:32 GMT
What is the situation with air tools how often do you need to get them checked, and if so by whom, and how long do the various certificates last. Compressors are supposed to have periodic pressure tests, which no-one ever seems to do....... This is because people don't drain them off at the end of the day/session and the water which condenses inside causes them to rot from the inside outwards. The old receivers made prior to the 1980s were generally reckoned to be good for 30 to 60 years. Modern ones can rot out in as little as 3 to 5 years if left undrained. I believe that the normal certificate is valid for 3 to 5 years, although I'm not awfully certain as the length of certificate validity is dependent on the individual tester (my last one was a 3 year cert.). As to the air lines and tools there is no requirement I'm aware of other than the statutory duty of care any employer has together with an obligation, in trade environments, to carry out and show that you have done so periodic inspections and routine service. That is pretty much the same as is required for static machinery and when you think about it not a bad idea in any case. If anyone knows better, please feel free to correct me. Scrit |
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Post by dom on Oct 11, 2007 5:01:47 GMT
Well the rest of Europe seems to ignore the EU regs when they don't like them - it's only our lot that seem hell bent on implementing them Cheers Paul How very,very true |
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ike
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Post by ike on Oct 16, 2007 10:25:59 GMT
The EU should make it compulsory for ALL Pat testers to provide fresh jam doughnuts as part of the service (one per socket/plug tested). Anyone providing the clammy supermarket ones would be electrocuted.
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oj
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Post by oj on Oct 20, 2007 10:17:38 GMT
What did the guy do for his £250? How many items? Some guys will fix the small stuff as they go, but most will keep it as an inspection only.
The single most important test, and the one which catches the vast majoroty of faults (over 90% I'd say) is the visual test. It's done first, before the PA tester is out of it's bag, and could save you money if the guy was correcting the minor issues for you as he was going. Technically, if you find a fault, you have to either fix it with the customers permission or render the item unusable ie cut the plug off close to the body or case. It's also up to you to set (and justify) the inspection interval.
OJ
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Post by promhandicam on Oct 20, 2007 13:51:02 GMT
Hi. Not used the gun in question but don't they have a safety device on them so that they only fire when pushed up against something? Unless this had been disabled I think that the video is a set up. I thought that was why on site if you wanted to actually fire a nail at something (or someone) you had to do it through a scaffold pipe . Also, how the hell do you slip with a nail gun and manage to fire 6 nails into the back of your own head! I heard of a labourer manage to drill himself in the chest - he wanted to push against something as he drilled a piece of wood and though his chest would do the job! But using a framing nailer to shoot yourself in the back of the head - I don't think so. Steve |
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Post by Scrit on Oct 20, 2007 18:06:25 GMT
One of the problems with pneumatiucs is that the safety device is mechanical and prone to stick in the depress position (i.e. safety off) if neglected. Furthermore many pneumatic nail guns offer two triggers with the guns, a single shot (the safety version) and a bump fire version where if the nose is depressed against a hard surface the gun will fire so long as the trigger is depressed. This is the mode often used by framers for extra speed and is the one which can cause injury if abused. Although quite how the guy managed to shoot himself in the head I don't know, but I have seen an upholsterer staple himself to the work three times in a row with bump mode - because he was tacking so fast - so I know it is poossible.
Scrit
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