Biscuits

[jimw]

I’ve not used biscuits before but wanted to see how they go, so I bought some from Aldi.

I thought I’d buy a ¼” slotter for my table router as I guess most of what I want to do could be done on that. Any thoughts?

However the Erbauer ERB900 Biscuit Jointer is only 40 quid at Screw fix. Is this any good? Bear in mind I’m only an amateur and am unlikely to use it much, so don’t start saying buy the best there is at ten times the price.

I presume this tool could be used for slotting too?

[paulchapman]

I rate the biscuit jointer as the best and most useful power tool I've ever bought, apart from the router. It's so fast, accurate and easy to use as well as the joints (in my opinion) adding considerable strength. The problem with the biscuit cutter in a router is that it limits considerably the sort of joints you can do because the body of the router would get in the way and, of course, you forego the speed and ease of use.

Mine is an Elu DS140 like this



I bought it many years ago when the only choice was that or the Lamello. It was therefore expensive at the time (you can buy the equivalent DeWalt cheaper today) but it's lasted so long and given so much use that, over the long term, it's been relatively inexpensive.

The Elu is designed slightly differently from most biscuit jointers and is a jointer/groover (a separate blade is available for grooving) but I've not used it for grooving. No doubt you could groove with other styles of jointer, but I've not tried it. A router would probably be better for grooving in most situations.

I've no experience of cheap biscuit jointers - from what I've heard some are very good, others not so. Accuracy and repeatability is probably the main issue.

Hope this helps

Cheers

Paul

[Scrit]

Well, if I were you I'd buy......

On a more serious note most biscuit jointers don't make good slotters for two reasons. Firstly they have a pair or rubber anti-slip stops on the front which are designed to resist the machine being dragged across the workpiece (as you would need to do if slotting with one) and secondly biscuit jointers have a spring return machanism and you'd need to be able to clamp the work firmly and constantly push the jointer against the workpiece whilst making the cut, which to me sounds like the depth of cut could end up inconsistent. So for slotting I think a 4mm slotting cutter on a router would be a better bet.

I can't comment on the quality of the Aldi machine, though I think the biggest downside to low-cost machines is durability/reliability (there's the tradesman in me showing through again). Would anyone else know anything about this machine?

Edit: Like Paul I've got an Elu DS140 and I used to use it to slot cut on PoS stands where we were putting in a 3.2mm thick hardboard or MDF back. It use to do the job very well, I'm pleased to say, but as Paul points out there are a limited range of uses for this type of cut. My other biscuit jointer is a more conventional Mafell LNF19 (since superseded by the LNF20) which would be very awkward to use for slotting.

Scrit

[staffie]

Cant comment on the ELU but to my shame I must admit to owning a cheap Draper biscut joiner.
The biggest problem with the cheaper versions is the accuracy, I spend a lot of time setting the depth of cut and height adjustments, aslo have to check them all the time.
I use it two to three times a month and it has lasted 18 months.
I did try to cut slots with it once and as Srcit said holding the punge mechanism in and moving it along the wood was not the best idea the slot ended up all over the place. Not to mention that potential risk of kickback etc.

[dirtydeeds]

if you buy a cheap biscuit jointer check the fence settings regularly they can and do move. there is nothing worse than a line of biscuit slots getting further and further out of vertical position

from this you know i bought a cheap biscuit jointer as a stop gap after my makita got nicked.

i binned the offending tool immediatly. when and if the replacement makita dies i will probably get a lamello

[pj]

My advice is to forget the fence on the cheaper machines and always reference of the base of the machine using packers under either tool or workpiece to get into centre. Most machines are designed to hit the centre of an 18mm board when used of the base. Doing this is pretty foolproof, be it a bit slower, but it will let you see how much you will use it and if an upgrade is worth it.

Philip

[dom]

pj said:

My advice is to forget the fence on the cheaper machines and always reference of the base of the machine using packers under either tool or workpiece to get into centre. Most machines are designed to hit the centre of an 18mm board when used of the base. Doing this is pretty foolproof, be it a bit slower, but it will let you see how much you will use it and if an upgrade is worth it.

Philip

If you do that, always make sure that the board and the bench are dead flat or the board is solidly clamped down.

[promhandicam]

pj said:

My advice is to forget the fence on the cheaper machines and always reference of the base of the machine using packers under either tool or workpiece to get into centre.
Philip

I also have a cheap biscuit jointer and using it in the way Philip described I've not had any problems. I usually put a largish piece of mdf on my bench and reference off of that, making sure, as Dom says, that the work is held down firmly. One other point, when edge jointing as long as you always have the face surface of the work facing down it doesn't matter if the slot is dead centre of the edge, all the slots will still line up and once glued up you won't know that they are off centre.

Steve

[afterglow]

I bought a cheap biscuit jointer a few years ago - can't remember the make (it's still in the workshop, but forgotten most of my tools due to absence!). The fence is horrible and the depth-stop is rubbish too, which is a problem that needs to be fixed.

The depth-stop problem is caused by lack of thread or even stripped threadin the machine. I'll be sorting this out with a bit of thermo mouldable plastic, ingenuity and a glass of wine!

The fence isn't something I use though - I reference off the base of the machine as mentioned in other posts. There's a video on Youtube showing this nicely

www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5IjYG0zU0M

Unfortunately I think he's put a sound-track onto the video as well as having the radio playing in the background.


By fluke I've just come across this set of 12 biscuit-jointing tips while hunting around for something else. Looks a handy site too.

www.americanwoodworker.com/aspx/ContentDetail.aspx?ContentId=928&PageNo=1


Cheers,

Lee

Edits: inserted the link to the americanwoodworker tips.

[craigmarshall]

Some of the earlier posts mentioned problems with fences on the cheaper biscuit j
ointers.

I bought a Trend T20 and although the fence locking mechanism was fine when I bought it, when I got it home for some reason it failed to lock properly. It's the type of fence where there is a spring applying sideways pressure to pull the fence square, and then a single bolt/cam to lock the whole thing in place.

After I noticed the failure to lock, I took the fence off and inspected the workings a little bit, and decided there was a little excess spring width and that this was stopping the bolt from closing and therefore stopping the fence from locking, so I decided to reduce the width of the spring slightly. A few minutes on the coarse diamond stone removing perhaps .2mm (narrow edge down, not wide flat side) and the problem was solved. The fence now locks square and tight, with no chance of it shifting at all. It's a bit of a pain to get the fence on and off, because you have to remember to make sure both arms of the spring are "open" and against the fence, but I'm fairly sure this was always the case.

Just thought this might help someone with a similar fence "hiccup".

Cheers,
Craig

PS: Someone in a tool shop told me that the Freud biscuiter is the same as the Trend one, so this advice might apply to those too.

PPS: As far as cheap vs. expensive goes, the two obvious benefits the Lamello Top20S has, having used both a few times now are: 1) The lamello is quieter. The trend isn't deafening, but the lamello sounds smoother and quieter and is more pleasant to use, sounds like it might last 15 years or more, mine kind of encourages you to search for your grease gun or oilcan, it sounds like it might last a 2-3 years, but hopefully more. 2) The lamello has the fine height adjuster, you can move the cutter up and down in (I think) tenths of a millimetre or thereabouts. I've never needed to use this feature (and even if I did, you could make shims, a piece of paper is .1mm) , but I can see how you would. (e.g. adding a solid lipping to a veneered MDF shelf, if anything, you'd want the lipping to be proud, because you're not able to sand/plane back much MDF). As far as I can tell or measure, mine cuts slots perfectly parallel to both the machined bottom surface of the biscuiter and also to the bottom surface of the fence when it's locked. The results after gluing up haven't been any different to using the lamello, so I'm happy with my purchase so far!

[Scrit]

craigmarshall said:

PS: Someone in a tool shop told me that the Freud biscuiter is the same as the Trend one, so this advice might apply to those too.

It is (and is also available badged Virutex):



But then again does this router look familiar?:



Yep, it's the Freud/AEG/Atlas-Copco, etc, etc........

Incidentally should anyone need spares for Casals (plus certain Virutex and Freud tools), etc they now have an operation in the UK (they are Spanish but Toolbank are distributing for them) - just follow the link above

craigmarshall said:

PPS: As far as cheap vs. expensive goes.....
.....2) The lamello has the fine height adjuster, you can move the cutter up and down in (I think) tenths of a millimetre or thereabouts.

Well the Mafell/AEG/Atlas-Copco/Milwaukee/Kress design has a router-like turret with fine pitch threads (although shims would also work) whilst the Elu DS140/deWalt DW685 have a fine height adjuster as well. Neither is any help if you are registering off the base plate, though....... My Mafell sounds OK, despite the Kress motor and gearbox whilst the Elu has always sounded like a bag of spanners - for the last 27 years!

Scrit

[9fingers]

Whilst we are on badged/cloned BJs (No sniggering at the back - BISCUIT JOINTERS!!)

The Bosch and the Makita are very similar indeed. I suspect some colusion.

Bob

[engineerone]

i have one of the aeg models and have been very pleased with it for years, the height adjustment is very good, indeed the only real problem for me is the plastic levers are pretty easy to break when you drop it

and to get in corners you have to remove said adjusters cause they get in the way.

it must be over 15 years old and although i do not use it all the time, it has done well on lots of mdf shelving bits, and was actually looking back quite cheap about 150 quid when i bought it which seemed then pretty decent value.


paul

[9fingers]

scrit said:

Incidentally should anyone need spares for Casals (plus certain Virutex and Freud tools), etc they now have an operation in the UK (they are Spanish but Toolbank are distributing for them) - just follow the link above.

Hi Scrit,

I think your finger must have slipped off the CTRL key when pasting the CASALS link.

Regards

Bob

[dom]

I too have the AEG Paul, brilliant piece of kit. ;D

[Scrit]

9finger said:

Hi Scrit,

I think your finger must have slipped off the CTRL key when pasting the CASALS link......

OOps - well, sorted out now, admittedly somewhat belatedly.......

It should have been to here

Scrit

[9fingers]

Good to have to back on the forum Scrit

Bob