Better than a Festool? surely some mistake!!!

[andy king]

No mistake!

Just got back from a DeWalt tool conference where they have launched their new products for 2008. Apart from a new range of battery tools using Li-Ion, 28 and 36v, plus additions in the standard range 12, 14.4 and 18v, and all backwards compatible to current tools so NiCd and NiMh bodies will take the new LiIon and vice versa (It's 'Nano Phosphate' technology apparently, but backed up by using a market leader in Li-Ion technology, they developed the batteries for the new eco cars)
Anyway, thats not the main news...
The Festool TS55 plunge saw has met its match, and been beaten by a new plunge saw, the DWS520K. It does everything the TS55 does, but it can also be used on its side to trim doors in situ, it fits Festool rails as well as the new ones designed for this one. Their own rails have two usable edges so you get double the wear out of the zero tolerance.
It also has a superb anti kickback function so it can't jump the rail if it catches (Only works on their own rail as there are two running grooves on the base, one for DW, one for Festool compatability)
It also has a parallel plunge rather than a pivot plunge, which also minimises kickback if you don't engage the function or are using it on a Festool rail.
Also, the rail doesn't twist like a Festool can. It flexes just the same as a Festool will on unsupported areas, but flexes squarely rather than a slight twist.
Apparently its priced about the same as a Festool, but also available in 18 and 28v versions with identical features. (more dosh cos of the batteries tho.)
I've got no affiliation with DeWalt, I was just mightily impressed when I saw it demoed today, and even more so when I had a go myself! Hopefully I'll be getting a proper look at one in the next couple of weeks

cheers,

Andy

PS. Forgot to add, hooked up to an extractor its up to 98 percent efficient, depending on whether its an enclosed cut or a through cut where waste can drop though the bottom of the cut.

[jfc]

OOOOOO , shame they had to price it the same as a festool or they may have been on to a winner .

[andy king]

Yep, that's what I said to them, but they reckon with their better features, it makes it a better tool than the Festool (and it certainly seems to be) so they reckon is justifies the same price banding.
They had a pro chippy demoing who fits bedrooms and stuff for a living and used Festool for years. He's had one since last May to try it 'in the field' and he rates it well above the Festool. He showed the Dewalt features against the Festool to make sure everyone knew exactly why it was better!

[engineerone]

jason i don't think the pricing is going to be the problem i would guess it will be whether dewalt help their smaller dealers or not.

normally they seem to want all the cake and eating the crumbs too, by making it cheaper for b&q than the independents.

at least festo are consistent, although even they have changed their rules this year

paul

[wizer]

let the price wars begin

[Alf]

wizer said:

let the price wars begin

Never mind that - now we'll get three-way threads on Festool vs. DeWalt vs. EZ ;D

Thanks for that, Andy; interesting. I got the impression DeWalt had fallen out of favour rather with "those who know" so it's good to hear they're upping the anti again.

Cheers, Alf

[dom]

Cold day and hell come to mind.
Chop saws and battery drills have all let me down, so for me, Dewalt would have to give them to me to try before I even look at one.

[dirtydeeds]

well i would say it wouldnt i, seeing as i use festool gear

but

festool have a reputation for quality

dewalt dont

they cost the same to buy?

the festool will last longer. IF stress IF it breaks down it can be fixed up till 10 years after the last one is made, so will be cheaper in the long run.

[cono1966]

Hi Andy
I went to the Ally Pally last Saturday and spent some time on the DeWalt stand. I went along to to it specifically to see their DWS520. Initially I was very impressed with the demo which included the points you made extremely well. However there were 2 guys there who were very keen to purchase one if it met their needs. It hinged around cutting worktops. After spending approx 30-45 mins endeavouring to achieve a 90 degree cut without chipping etc. the demonstrator could not explain why the saw was not achieving an acceptable standard. I lost count of the number of cuts he made and variations he attempted. Initially he did a scribe cut first then the full cut, then full cut without scribing first and variations on this theme without success, he even went to the length of placing a new strip on the rail. To sum up he was very embarassed and said that all the strips he had cut would be looked at by their engineers to see what the problem was. One of the two guys I mentioned I believe decided not to go ahead with a purchase but the other was told by the demonstrator that he could return the saw within 30 days if he was not satisfied. I believe he was considering taking up this option, he appeared to be very pro DeWalt. I only mention this as their may be kitchen fitters out there considering this saw seriously for use on worktops. I too have no affiliation with Festo. I would be interested if DeWalt find out what the problem is. It was on offer at the show for 339 inc 1.5 metre rail.
Cheers
Con

[andy king]

Hi Con,

never had chance to look at the demo at the show - to busy on my own one!
Anyway, from my own point of view, plunge cutting a worktop, even with a zero tolerance strip still leaves the other side of the blade free to tear, or in the case of worktop, chip, even with a fine blade as its an up cutting tool, hence the usual practice of turning tops over and cutting from the underside if circular sawing.
Was it chipping on the zero tolerance edge? If so, definitely something wrong, it should leave a pretty fine cut especially as it comes with a fine tooth blade as standard - could even be cheap worktop to blame!
If the zero side is good, you can position the guide such that the waste is inside and get good clean edges on plunges, so not as critical a problem.
Any Festool owners out there manage to get two good edges on laminate with a guide rail?
I've got one coming in for review in the next week or so, so i'll check this out myself and see if it's a common problem or operator error...

cheers,

Andy

[thatsnotafestool]

andrewking said:

.....
Any Festool owners out there manage to get two good edges on laminate with a guide rail?
......

Yes..with their laminate blade fitted.

[jfc]

Ahhhhh the Default demo guys , i love the claims they make but when asked to do it they cant ;D I told one i would buy the jigsaw off him if he could cut a straight and square line along the grain as he claimed it could ....... I walked off after about 15 mins of him trying ;D

[Keith]

Andy you can get a more or less perfect cut on both edges with the Festool as it has a green plastic chip limiter for the off-side edge.

Keith

[dom]

As Keith said, no problems with the limiter in use.

[andy king]

Thanks Keith, the lights are coming on!
Where are those little lightbulb smileys when you really want one!?

I vaguely remember the guy who demoed it at the launch commenting on a splinter guard, and he cut some laminate at the time and it was really clean. Might be the Ally Pally demo bods forgot to fit one when they were cutting. Again, one for me to check when I look at one properly!

Andy

[ivan]

Andy, climb cut backwards 3mm deep (from far to near) to score the top surface and then cut full depth in usual direction. NMA (MNA?) demoed this with a Mafell on a worktop some years back, this had no rubber anti chip strip, or "offside" green plastic chip inhibitor. Persuaded me to buy one. Safe if you have a sprung riving knife and a guide rail. New Mafells now have a rubber strip, but not really needed if you double cut.

[cono1966]

Hi Andy

He was cutting with the laminate side face up. The chipping he got was mainly toward the last 150-175mm of the cut and was to the left of the sawblade, i.e. not the waste side of the cut, additionally the cut itself was not square.

Cheers
Con

[cono1966]

Hi Ivan
The demonstrator did exactly what you described (at least 6 times) the Mafell demonstrator did. It did not work.

Cheers
Con

[ivan]

Somewhere else (at the other place) I'm sure there was a post about B&D moving all their blade mfg to China. This could be the problem, assuming the blade abor has a good length and bearings. The Mafell demo was with their fine cut blade, I tend to use Festool (atb fine cut) blades as they are available locally.

[cuttingsolutions]

cono1966 said:

Hi Andy

He was cutting with the laminate side face up. The chipping he got was mainly toward the last 150-175mm of the cut and was to the left of the sawblade, i.e. not the waste side of the cut, additionally the cut itself was not square.

Cheers
Con

Sounds like a "dished" saw blade or spindle not running true