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Post by wooden42 on Oct 9, 2007 9:13:25 GMT
Hi folks,
Jason, the erstwhile administrator of this site, tells me that there are people looking for a [glow=red,2,300]“deal” on Festool[/glow].
Now I am an authorised Festool dealer, and like all Festool dealers, I have made an investment in demonstration stock and training. Therefore, like the rest of the Festool network I sell quality tools that do the job. In that price, which some potential customers consider to high there is a modicum of profit, an essential thing in business. Make no profit and you are out of business, so having been in business since 1978 and in the tool business for 10 years then I guess I have made some profit. Profit helps you through the lean years and there have been a few of them.
The fact I have invested in training does not make me an expert but I usually know a man who is! Yes we know there are cheap tools out there but what is the point of buying tools that are not fit for purpose, it just costs you more in the long term.
Therefore, I guess that when it comes to selling on price then you know my position. Put simply I do not sell on price but I will be competitive.
I learnt back in the early 70's when I was selling transistors and integrated circuits in major companies in the UK. Then I was a rookie sales man with about 15 months of sales experience. Every Tuesday I spent all day at a large US owned electronics company with at least 2 hours of that day spent in the purchasing department.
One of the senior buyers there taught me that a deal is a deal when both parties are happy with the deal, and that it was not just about price and that there are many other factors that should be taken into consideration.
I still believe that price is not the number one factor when people making a purchase decision. I would put it down around number 4 factor, although a major tool manufacturer told me earlier this year that they reckon it is about factor number 7. By the way, it was not Festool in case some of you jump to that conclusion.
Yes, deals can be done but may I suggest you try thinking about price in a different way.
For instance how do you respond when your customer tells you how much they think a job is worth, or the management (wife) says no to the perceived new toy. You have to sell it and profit comes in there as well.
Final thought on cheap tools, they are not as cheap as you thought because whilst the Far Eastern suppliers undercut prices you and I will be paying tax to support the un-employed manufacturing people in the UK.
So if you want Festool or American jigs and fixtures please call 01491 629 699 Wood Workers Workshop.
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Post by dirtydeeds on Oct 16, 2007 1:55:45 GMT
42
my local festool dealer is 15 minutes away. he gave me the same long story for not giving discount
i drive 20 miles through the dartford tunnel to get my tools, everything is sold at street prices and they are friendy
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Post by mailee on Oct 16, 2007 11:26:36 GMT
I agree that Festool is wonderful kit and have tried the new Kapex saw but given the price of it and most of the Festool kit then I think it is very OTT. If you compare the prices to other leading makes they are much more expensive and not just a little. If I had the money to spare I would no doubt buy Festool tools but when I can spend almost half the price on a good piece of De Walt, Makita, or Bosch kit then I will save my pennies and still get what I consider quality tools. I am not a tradesman and therefore don't put my tools under the same rigors that they do but I do use mine a lot more than the average DIY'er and my tools are in use most days. Just my tu'ppenth FWIW.  |
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Post by Scrit on Oct 16, 2007 18:25:10 GMT
As for me I'm afraid i'm not a convert, had 2 broken 2. Ham-fisted, or just concrete floor syndrome? Some of the tools Festool make are simply beyond compare. In that category I include the EHL65 planer (although I can do just as well with an Elu planer and a block plane, ta), the plunge saws and the random orbit sanders (best brakes and extraction in electric sanders). They also do one of the best laminate trimmers ever, albeit a warmed-over version of the Holz-Her 2360. For many other items I have to agree with others who rate Festools as over-priced and over-hyped. They don't have the battery technology of firms like Makita and Panasonic meaning that their cordless drills aren't all that hot any more, the jigsaws have recently been caught and passed by Bosch and £1k for a mitre saw? Don't make me laugh (or cry). It's obvious that some of their tools are being designed for well-heeled "gentleman" amateurs rather than the trade (and in that category I'd include the much-vaunted Domino). Only in a few areas do they have clear merit, and then only in part because of that wonderful Systainer system - but then again did you know that in Germany some Metabo and deWalt tools are supplied in Systainers? (dark green and black/yellow respectively - I've seen them) Scrit |
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Post by wizer on Oct 17, 2007 7:06:21 GMT
42 my local festool dealer is 15 minutes away. he gave me the same long story for not giving discount i drive 20 miles through the dartford tunnel to get my tools, everything is sold at street prices and they are friendy Can I ask the company name? |
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Post by jfc on Oct 17, 2007 7:22:38 GMT
I asked Roger to post here as i have had dealings with him in the past and thought you lot may find him a useful contact , i know i do .
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Telos
Full Member
Posts: 123
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Post by Telos on Oct 17, 2007 8:03:43 GMT
...snip... Only in a few areas do they have clear merit, and then only in part because of that wonderful Systainer system - but then again did you know that in Germany some Metabo and deWalt tools are supplied in Systainers? (dark green and black/yellow respectively - I've seen them) Scrit The Group that owns Festool, Tooltechnicsystem (TTS) also owns Tanos, the manufacturer of the Systainers. They have become almost an industry standard in Germany and are sold to a lot of companies, not just Festool. You can buy them direct in lots of exciting colours should you feel the need. Tanos website |
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Post by wizer on Oct 17, 2007 9:34:36 GMT
but then again did you know that in Germany some Metabo and deWalt tools are supplied in Systainers? (dark green and black/yellow respectively - I've seen them) Scrit I have a Metabo ROS which came in a MetBox, which is basically a Systainer. Good bit of kit, I would but them individually for other tools. |
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Post by wizer on Oct 17, 2007 9:48:29 GMT
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Post by Scrit on Oct 17, 2007 18:16:39 GMT
I knew that the Systainers were made by a sister company. The wider availability is of more interest, however, as one of the big drawbacks of taking your kit out on site is the multiple trips to the van necessary to decant the lot. Systainers clip together making it much easier to load/unload gear at the start/end of a day and the price of them is well worth justifying if you are in the trade. Even if you don't want Festool tools
Scrit
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Post by colincott on Oct 17, 2007 21:14:41 GMT
I knew that the Systainers were made by a sister company. The wider availability is of more interest, however, as one of the big drawbacks of taking your kit out on site is the multiple trips to the van necessary to decant the lot. Systainers clip together making it much easier to load/unload gear at the start/end of a day and the price of them is well worth justifying if you are in the trade. Even if you don't want Festool tools Scrit Scrit Will you stop that as I dont need to be spending any more money just yet  By the way it does make good sence  |
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Post by dom on Oct 18, 2007 4:19:06 GMT
Damn it, I only bought the tools for the boxes  |
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Post by johnboy on Oct 18, 2007 15:47:04 GMT
Those systainers in wizer's link are magic, just like a tardis, except for the small one the inside dimensions are bigger than the outside. Must get some of those.
John
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Post by dom on Oct 18, 2007 17:13:49 GMT
Yeh, I noticed that, you could put your whole van inside one  |
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Post by dirtydeeds on Oct 23, 2007 20:49:33 GMT
.......................... and ive got the domino its a curious point of view that if you buy festool (because they are expensive) you arnt a real tradesman even stranger that while holding this view the planer and edge router are held up as being quite good ill be back after ive scratched the word carpenter off the signage on the van |
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Post by dirtydeeds on Oct 23, 2007 20:53:44 GMT
festool buy their batteries from panasonic and they balance the cells in the same way as panasonic do for maximum longevity
makita dont balance the cells as rigoursly as panasonic
many companies dont even bother with makitas level of balancing
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Post by hobbit on Oct 28, 2007 20:23:56 GMT
.......................... and ive got the domino its a curious point of view that if you buy festool (because they are expensive) you arnt a real tradesman even stranger that while holding this view the planer and edge router are held up as being quite good ill be back after ive scratched the word carpenter off the signage on the van Instead of Carpenter you could write Rich Bloke ;D |
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Post by Scrit on Oct 28, 2007 22:20:49 GMT
......even stranger that while holding this view the planer and edge router are held up as being quite good Yes, but the edge trimmer/laminate trimmer was the Holz-Her 2360 in a former life, the other edge router is actually a Kress (and is also sold badged Lamello - it shouldn't be a surprise as Kress make drills for Porter-Cable and Wickes). The Festool belt sander was also a Holz-Her, too (and sold by Bosch in both 3in and 4in versions at one point), and if you take a look at the plunge mechanism on Festool saws you'll see traces of the Holz-Her Mosquito design in there......... The large Festool router is actually made by Mafell (who call their version the LO65e), whilst Festool sell Mafell their smaller router (badged LO50e by Mafell) - and yes there are lots of detail differences. Festool was certainly supplying Virutex with their "patent" jigsaw, at least in it's former version. So even the mighty Festool is just as incestuous as the rest of em in the German power tool industry! Scrit |
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Post by Scrit on Oct 28, 2007 22:22:28 GMT
Instead of Carpenter you could write Rich Bloke ;D At the price of Festools wouldn't "poor barsteward" be more apt? Scrit |
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Post by hobbit on Oct 28, 2007 22:34:05 GMT
Instead of Carpenter you could write Rich Bloke ;D At the price of Festools wouldn't "poor barsteward" be more apt? Scrit Yes of course, he was rich once unless he took out a second mortgage. |
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Post by dirtydeeds on Oct 29, 2007 22:56:44 GMT
the good bit about festool is accuracy and longevity. the bad bit is you cant blame a festool for a mistake
poor is totally correct, ive had to buy them all twice
the wall of my workshop was smashed to steal them
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Post by dom on Oct 30, 2007 6:41:20 GMT
Well I like my Festools and as Dirtydeeds said they are accurate and do have a good feel about them, BUT, the Rotex 150 FEQ broke yesterday morning at 8a.m. , sort of sputtered a few times and died. I changed the lead removed the vacuum etc. no go. Phoned the dealer who asked if I had put it to heavy use as, "the brushes tend to burn out rather quickly" To which I replied ," I only bought it in August , even if I have put it to heavy use, shouldn't they last a little longer" I await their phone call to tell me what's going to be done  Why has it taken 24 hours |
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Post by hobbit on Oct 30, 2007 16:00:20 GMT
Well I like my Festools and as Dirtydeeds said they are accurate and do have a good feel about them, BUT, the Rotex 150 FEQ broke yesterday morning at 8a.m. , sort of sputtered a few times and died. I changed the lead removed the vacuum etc. no go. Phoned the dealer who asked if I had put it to heavy use as, "the brushes tend to burn out rather quickly" To which I replied ," I only bought it in August , even if I have put it to heavy use, shouldn't they last a little longer" I await their phone call to tell me what's going to be done Why has it taken 24 hours Because they aint as good as they say, or not as good as roger says ;D |
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Post by dirtydeeds on Oct 30, 2007 19:36:00 GMT
its not often a festool goes down
ive put my rotex 150 to jobs that would kill any other make in minuites
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Post by dom on Oct 30, 2007 20:07:54 GMT
Well Festool won't replace it or give me a loaner( I'm seriously unimpressed) they have said they'll repair it, which considering it's less than 3 months old and the price paid, is disgraceful.
The retailer said they would collect it today but failed to turn up.
I'll not name them, yet, because I have received good service from them in the past.
But Festool will get a roasting, seems they talk a good fight, but when it comes to the knockout, in this case a tradesman who needs his tools, they are, frankly full of it, they take your money( a lot of it) give you a tool that doesn't work and then tell you that when they're ready they'll collect it and when they're ready you can have it back.
Well guess what Festool.
This Saturday I was going to purchase one of your jigsaws and a router.
Maybe I'll look for an East End barrow boy to deal with, they have higher moral principles.
You sit in your Ivory Tower and make your money out of honest tradesmen.
Let's see how things go in the future.
Dom
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