EZSmart now available in the UK

[jfc]

Well i cant speak for the EZ system but i do have the clamp and guide and it saves alot of messing around with timber and clamps . I imagine the EZ has taken the clamp and guide one step further All i can say is having the clamp and guide saves time in making a saw board and having to make a new one every now and then .

[colincott]

Jacob

I use the EZ for all the angled cuts on that unit which was easy as it is supported on both sides of the saw.

I just change the plastic edges and I still have them for the next time

[wizer]

I recently invested in some EZ guides. As yet I have not had a chance to use them rigorously. I have used the saw board technique and think MrG is correct, it is a simple, easy, quick and cheap way of cutting down sheets. However I found that my 8ft saw board was heavy and cumbersome. It was also hard to store and of course sheet materials can get 'dinged' easier than metal/alu. I wanted a modular system that could be as long or short as I needed without having lots of saw boards hanging around the workshop. The ultimate reason for opting for the EZ system was the fact it runs on a 'track'. With the sawboard I found that I tended to 'wander' away from the fence. I know this is down to my own personal incompetence. I'm paying for the convenience of not having to think about if I have enough pressure against the fence.

Festool would have been my first choice if it wasn't for the price. Despite comments above, EZ is well priced (even in the UK).

There are other track and rail systems out there. I plumped for the EZ because I liked the company. I don't understand why they get such a hard time for being enthusiastic about their products. You don't see the owner of Festool or Bosch active on an internet forum.

I have to cut down a few 8x4's this week and that's where I'll know for sure if I have made the right choice.

[mrgrimsdale]

Righto - so an ez guide is a posh sawboard, with a track instead of having to keep the saw up against a fence, which is an advantage.
Colins angle cuts; if across a sheet would be no prob with a sawboard, but a bevel along an edge would mean bevelling off the edge of the sawboard which then removes it's greatest feature - that you can set it so easily and precisely against marks as long as the edge stays square.
You'd only need praps 4 sawboards to cover all eventualities e.g. 8' 4' 2' and 1'.

cheers
Jacob

[wizer]

Got it in one MrG

You are basically paying for convenience. Just like buying a table saw over using a saw board. Or buying a SCMS over using a handsaw.

[mel]

I prefer a straight edge clamped at both ends
then run the saw up to the straight edge
simple . job done ;D ;D

sorry mr G have i missed the original point you were making ??
about free advertising

[paulchapman]

mrgrimsdale said:

as long as the edge stays square.

I used to use saw boards but found that over time they lost their accuracy. Never quite sure why this was but it was very frustrating. I also found them cumbersome to store. I now have three Trend clamp guides of different sizes with which I'm very happy. Very accurate, easy to clamp and take up very little room.

Whatever works for you, I suppose.....

Cheers

Paul

[colincott]

Jacob

I understand your thinking but unlike a saw board, I can make the EZ as long as I need for the job.

Knowing that it will be straight like this floor

[wizer]

mel said:

I prefer a straight edge clamped at both ends
then run the saw up to the straight edge
simple . job done ;D ;D

My grievance with that was allowing for the blade offset, just slowed things down and allowed errors to creep in.

[Angela]

For me the decision to buy some of the EZ system was based on the following requirements, I needed:-

• the space that was taken up by a cabinet saw;
  
• a system that would 'replace' the functions of a cabinet saw;
  
• a system that would allow me to cut large panels outside;
  
• a sawing system that would emulate my triple chip blade on the circular saw, i.e. produce little or no breakout on either side of the blade;
  
• something that would break down and store and also be reasonably portable;
  
• and I needed to be able to use the saw guide on narrow widths of timber.
  

I looked long and hard at a DIY guide but the killer points for me were; EZ was claimed to produce a cut free from breakout on both sides of the saw blade, and also rip very narrow pieces of timber. DIY saw guides are only as true as the cut edge on the board you buy to make it from and that worried me.

It is certainly not for everyone; but it does meet my needs.

I think it is over-priced for a saw guide, notwithstanding a middleman trying to interpose himself in the supply chain. Dino makes it all himself, apart from the aluminium extrusion he has made in the US. If he had enough volume then getting the stuff manufactured in China would be the way to go

[mrgrimsdale]

angela said:

snip
DIY saw guides are only as true as the cut edge on the board you buy to make it from and that worried me.
snip

Can be improved to be as accurate as you want - the defining edge is the fence piece on top of the saw board, which you can plane to "perfection" i.e. no visible error.
Cue - all those who struggle to get straight/flat aluminium profiles for fences and the likes - a recurring theme
Have EZ found some magic way to obtain a better class of straight edge?

cheers
Jacob

[mrgrimsdale]

wizer said:

mel said:

I prefer a straight edge clamped at both ends
then run the saw up to the straight edge
simple . job done ;D ;D

My grievance with that was allowing for the blade offset, just slowed things down and allowed errors to creep in.

Thats why you need a sawboard members.aol.com/woodmiser1/sawbd.htm
It eliminates a lot of fiddling about - it sits exactly on the line or the marks and cuts spot on with no adjustments needed.

[wizer]

Or you need a alu guide system for the positive points above. That is, if you want to spend the money on it.

[Angela]

mrgrimsdale said:

which you can plane to "perfection" i.e. no visible error...

cheers
Jacob

Yes you can so long as you have a straight edge to check it against! Or perhaps you do it another way? I think there is a bit of a chicken and egg situation going on here!

My Mourne straight edge is only 1 metre long. That was pricey enough, I hate to think what a 8' straight edge would cost.

[Scrit]

mrgrimsdale said:

Have EZ found some magic way to obtain a better class of straight edge?

There are a number of so-called "builder" systems (accurate ally extrusions) including those by Bosch, 20-20 and MK (the German MK) which are basically extremely straight aluminium profiles with calculable bending/loading characterstics, however none of those would be suitable as they are of the wrong section. They are also hellishly expensive, but are remarkably straight (unlike the low-cost stuff sold by B&Q). Dino would need to have an extrusion die developed and made for his particular requirements at a possible costy of tens of thousands of pounds

Scrit

[Scrit]

angela said:

My Mourne (er, Maun?) straight edge is only 1 metre long. That was pricey enough, I hate to think what a 8' straight edge would cost.

So from that I can take it that you've never learned how engineers and patternmakers make their own striaght edges (in sets of three)? Time consuming, I'll agree, but perfectly feasible. In any case a string line pulled taught is a perfectly straight line and this is woodworking we're doing here, isn't it?

Scrit

[mrgrimsdale]

scrit said:

angela said:

My Mourne (er, Maun?) straight edge is only 1 metre long. That was pricey enough, I hate to think what a 8' straight edge would cost.

So from that I can take it that you've never learned how engineers and patternmakers make their own striaght edges (in sets of three)? Time consuming, I'll agree, but perfectly feasible. In any case a string line pulled taught is a perfectly straight line and this is woodworking we're doping here, isn't it?

Scrit

Here it is but it doesn't need to be that difficult, this is woodwork we're doping. As far as I am concerned if it looks straight then it is straight - sight along it in a good light, then again from the other end etc.
I suspect that anyone who sights along a longish ez gadget or similar, is in for a bit of a shock
Might be wrong on that - let me know how you get on ;D

cheers
Jacob

[dom]

Well I have the Festool rail system 8' and 4'

I draw my line, set the rail against it and cut, no clamps, it works, it's accurate. it's light to carry, easy to store at height and easy to take on site.
Cost was not an issue, I needed it for site work, so practicality was the main requirement.
If I where a hobbyist then perhaps the wooden ones might be used, however, if I wasn't built like a brick sh*t house I wouldn't want to be humping an 8' by 10" around a single garage or shed.

[pewe]

My original announcement seems to have deloped into a very interesting debate, and if I may, there are a couple of points I would like to address.

1. Manufactured guide rails versus shop made solutions:

In now way am I so naive as to believe that manufactured guide rails are the solution for everyone.

Everyone has their own preferences and opinions - if they didn't we'd all be clones of each other, driving the same cars, living in the same houses, wearing the same clothes and using the same tools.

If a shop made solution suits you - so be it, and no critiscism from me for that. However not everyone wants to go to the bother of making their own and would prefer to buy a product designed and manufatured for the purpose.
Furthermore, not everyone wants to spend money on a guide rail just for cutting in a straight line.
One of the things that impressed me about the EZ system was it's flexibility, which goes far beyond just cutting in a straight line - and from the response that we had at the Harrogate show, there are a large number of people who have now begun to appreciate it's flexibility, including representatives of other companies who also sell guide rail systems.

That said, if a home shop made guide rail does the job you need it for, and if you have the time and facilities to make it, why bother spending money.

2. Pricing:

One of the things that delayed the launch of the EZ system in the UK was pricing.

As it is now, the facts are these:

If a UK customer wished to purchase, for example, a 64" Guide rail package (the largest that could be shipped USPS) from the US, the shipped price would be $ 268, £127 at todays exchange rate.
Add the import duty, the VAT and the couriers handling fee this comes to £161.04.
Our price including VAT is £139.99 plus £20.00 delivery totaling £159.99.

It is no coincidence that the direct import and UK purchase costs are so similar. We went to great lengths to find the optimised level of shipping quantites and a suitable carrier to ensure that the UK customer would not be financially penalised for purchasing in the UK where they will benefit from faster delivery and local support.

It was also commented that there was the potential of a saving of 20% off the price to compensate for UK delivery, and a further saving because in most cases UK VAT would not be charged. The discount was a temporary concession and is no longer available, and in fact Dino will no longer be supplying direct to Europe. As far as the UK customs charges are concerned, this is not 'generally' the case, and could not be relied on as the norm.

3. UK Representation for Eurekazone (EzSmart):

It was suggested earlier in this thread that I was "a middleman trying to interpose himself in the supply chain".
This is not the case. It was Dino who offered me the opportunity to work with him to introduce and market his products in Europe. He wanted to secure support and marketing for his products in Europe in an effort to develop his business, and he decided that he could only do this by having a local agent/s. A normal business approach by any standard.
He also appreciates that to market and support his products cost money, but worked with us to find the appropriate solution to ensure that those costs did not financially disadvantage customers in the UK compared to buying direct (not withstanding the VAT anomaly) nor financially disadvantage his company or embarrass him with his US customers by offering overseas customers long term cheaper products to compensate for delivery charges which are beyond his control.

As said earlier, everyone is free to choose the appropriate solution for their own needs, but I just wanted to clarify the above points so that any choice could be made on an accurately informed basis.

[wizer]

Well that all sounds reasonable to me.

pewe, can I ask your background? Are you a trade woodworker or hobbiest? Or are you a businessman who owns other businesses, woodworking or otherwise?

More out of curiosity than anything else.

[Alf]

mrgrimsdale said:

Here it is but it doesn't need to be that difficult, this is woodwork we're doping.

Another view on the subject of making a straight edge here if anyone's interested.

Cheers, Alf

[mrgrimsdale]

Anyway I say we should not allow direct promotional stuff on this site. Peewee & co welcome as individuals or in answering questions abt their products - but we should tell them to sling their hooks if they want to set up their pitches - esp when so long winded, boring and patronising!

cheers
Jacob

[pewe]

Anyway I say we should not allow direct promotional stuff on this site.

Everyone is welcome to their own opinion, but as I said, I sent a copy of my post content to a moderator for comment and this was approved prior to posting.

esp when so long winded, boring and patronising!

Sorry you feel that way, but having placed the approved post in good faith, I felt that a reply was necessary - in detail but with no intention of being generally patronising - to dispel the unnecessary and personal ill informed comments/criticism contained in a couple of the responses.

[Scrit]

wizer said:

I plumped for the EZ because I liked the company. I don't understand why they get such a hard time for being enthusiastic about their products. You don't see the owner of Festool or Bosch active on an internet forum.

I feel that part of the reason Dino gets a hard time, as opposed to other makers, is that he makes what are, at times, simply proposterous and outlandish claims - most notably, to my mind, that the Ez system is as accurate/fast/repeatable as a $25,000/£12,000 panel saw (claims which in the UK would probably breach the Trades Descriptions Act). Festool, Bosch, etc. don't make such claims as they would need to be able to defend them in court - and believe me they couldn't! If Dino tempered his claims a little he might find himself getting less grief, although I am tempted to think that by stirring the pot so vigourously he is in fact working the old maxim that all publicity is good publicity ;D

I'm not knocking Dino's creation, here. I feel it is accurate and repeatable enough for general woodworking, but then the basis is so simple how could it be otherwise?

I also find it interesting that at least two other members were aware of the three edge system, as originally described by Sir J. Armstrong Whitworth. An interesting exercise for all, I'd say!

Scrit

PS Alf, nice to see you back and in (hopefully) good health

[wizer]

Some good points there Scrit. I guess I naturally take Dino's sales speak with a pinch of salt. There are probably very few people who really believe that the EZ system is a replacement for a 12k panel saw and for that matter I'd be surprised to hear a manufacturer of a 12k saw that was worried about a guide rail system.

Let's hope that the UK distribution can organise a better angle of attack with it's promotion.