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Post by mrgrimsdale on Apr 5, 2008 18:22:58 GMT
Following the oil/varnish thread: this window, hot linseed oil - shellac in rebates - linseed oil putty. To be painted in a week or so.  I've propped it on a gantry thing so I can glaze/paint in the vertical , and then wheel it for a final lift into position    Access from tower scaffold  View of workshop - spot the bench ;D  |
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Post by jfc on Apr 5, 2008 18:29:24 GMT
Thats a beast of a window mate ! I see you have also built a wall saw ;D
Was the original softwood ? i would have thought something that grand would have been oak .
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Post by andy on Apr 5, 2008 18:33:45 GMT
Nice window  But where is the picture of the full sized rod ;D |
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Post by paulchapman on Apr 5, 2008 18:35:14 GMT
Blimey, that's a whopper, Jacob  Hope you'll post some pictures when it's finished. Cheers  Paul |
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Apr 5, 2008 18:53:38 GMT
Softwood except the curved glazing bar which was oak - I kept them and re-used them as they were in good nick and it'd save me a major job. Full size rods you can just see leaning up at the back in snaps 3 and 4; long bits of 4"x1" for the straight section. Round head rod on a piece of mdf, plus a trammel rod: piece of lath with holes in (pencil through holes and nail as centre pivot) for drawing the round part of rod and later for marking up the curved pieces. You cut the curved frame bits and then lay them on the flat rod to take off the marks for joints, mortices etc. Be bloody impossible without organised rod system cheers Jacob |
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Post by jfc on Apr 5, 2008 19:42:54 GMT
Do you think the original build used oak ? What year was the place built ? All very interesting to me .
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Apr 5, 2008 20:06:02 GMT
Do you think the original build used oak ? What year was the place built ? All very interesting to me . Originals softwood probably redwood, except for aforementioned steam bent oak glazing bar. Georgians and Victorians didn't use oak for exteral joinery except for occasional special purposes or high spec posh jobs. Oak external joinery = high maintenance costs, compared to painted softwood Built 1874 on site of older chapel. More stuff here. We meant to keep an on line diary but lots of other stuff happened  cheers Jacob |
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Post by woodworker on Apr 5, 2008 21:34:12 GMT
Very nice Jacob, Is the chapel your workshop or are you renovating for a customer, it just seems from the photo's that you've moved in (workshop wise) so to speak ? ;D ;D. I too read that interesting post on Shellac by Sgian Dubh and afterwards a few things from the past finally clicked into place  . |
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Post by jfc on Apr 5, 2008 21:50:29 GMT
Interesting read ! Any ideas why they used oak for the glazing bar and not softwood ? I assume it's because oak is better for steam bending but then i have never tried steam bending softwood .
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Post by jake on Apr 5, 2008 21:59:01 GMT
Softwood won't really steam bend, oak will, very well.
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Post by modernist on Apr 5, 2008 22:33:27 GMT
Beautiful thin glazing bars.
How are the beads held in? Are they pinned?
Lovely job
Brian
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Post by jfc on Apr 5, 2008 22:49:02 GMT
I think Jacob has been keping lots of pictures from us ;D C'mon Jacob post some more pics ...... Please ! |
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Apr 6, 2008 10:27:34 GMT
Not that thin. In fact big and chunky 22x57mm. Am more used to 14x44 which is almost a standard size for Victorian stuff. No beads, just putty. Glass is all 2 to 3 mm. No pins - glazing sprigs were never used until the advent of large pane sizes and heavier weight glass, (4mm). BTW sprigs aren't supposed to be left in place, they are just to hold the glass whilst the putty goes off, then you pull them out and make good the mark. As it happens I'm also doing some little sashes, copies of these:  They've got tiny bars 14x36  and no mouldings, just a bevel which you can see here at bottom sash stile / meeting-rail join  It's all ours and we live in the basement; what was a schoolroom, abt 1000ft 2 which will become workshop when the upstairs chapel is converted into living space. Some way to go cheers Jacob |
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TonyW
Full Member
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Post by TonyW on Apr 6, 2008 10:42:01 GMT
That's one impressive window . Bet you cant get them from Safestyle (buy one get one free) ;D and what a fantastic workshop. Cheers ;D Tony |
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Post by jake on Apr 6, 2008 11:30:32 GMT
Amazing window - and the space too!
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Post by andy on Apr 6, 2008 16:58:48 GMT
Bloody hell Jacob didn't realize you was a man of the cloth ;D
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Apr 6, 2008 17:18:48 GMT
...well I kept hearing voices and having visions. If you can't beat em, join em ;D
cheers
Jacob
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Post by paulchapman on Apr 6, 2008 17:29:50 GMT
...well I kept hearing voices and having visions That was probably the alcohol........ ;D |
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Post by cnc paul on Apr 6, 2008 17:35:34 GMT
Hey Jacob,
Nice joinery job, How long a project is the chapel ?
It is a nice part of the world up there..... I used to work for a furniture company in Wirksworth.
Paul
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Scott
New Member
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Post by Scott on Apr 6, 2008 18:28:00 GMT
Jacob
That window looks fantastic! Very impressive! (and interesting!)
Mind if I ask a few questions?
Hot linseed oil is presumably for better penetration (?). How hot do you make it?
I know you re-used the curved oak glazing bar but if you had had to make another do you have some foolproof ancient method of getting them bent to the right curve to allow for springback or is it just a combination of experience, allowing a percentage and a bit of good luck? I'm curious as to how far out from the rod it could be. Would you find it acceptable to spring it into position slightly or does that introduce stress to the framework that might cause timber or glazing problems down the line?
In your experience do find that the finish on oak treated the same way as the softwood (i.e. LO, LOP etc as described) is just as durable?
I'm a bit confused (read "thick"!) about the glazing. Do you mean that the glass is just held in place by nothing but a bead of putty on either side? ... or have I got it completely wrong? Is the putty surface just flat? I presume your nice bevelled sashes have glazing beads on the back??
Sorry for all the questions! Is there a book on all this kind of stuff that's worth looking for at all?
Thanks a million
Cheers
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Apr 6, 2008 19:14:09 GMT
snip Hot linseed oil is presumably for better penetration. How hot do you make it? Yes, 80deg C for penetration I'm told (Holkham Paints)Steaming is well established so I'd expect with practice, trial and error, you'd get it pretty close, but leaving the cutting to length and mortices until last of course, but I've never done it. Did have to spring these old ones in somewhat, they weren't spot on. Don't think they'll move at all as they are braced in all directions and held in a sturdy outer frame.Haven't done this before so will let you know in a few years! What I do know is that ordinary paints lift off oak much sooner than from softwoodRebates cut out, but no beads - or is this just terminology? I assume "bead" means planted on loose moulding. So glass held in rebate with thin triangular fillet of putty in the usual way. NB the face of the putty should lie below the line of sight across the rebate so you don't see it from insideNo modern books that I know of. Lots of pre-war or earlier building construction books were excellent. McKay "Building Construction" appropriate sections. Ellis. "Modern Practical Joinery" My favourite; "Joinery & Carpentry" Ed R Greenhalgh. New Era Publications. 6 vols. Crops up on Abebooks now and then not too pricey £50 ish All books give a partial picture . Hands on experience with old joinery or furniture, esp if you can pull it apart and have a good look, is absolutely essential! Anybody wanting to do furniture ought to go and buy any old rubbish (older the better) at auctions and then pull it to bits. cheers Jacob |
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Post by pitbull on Apr 6, 2008 19:33:02 GMT
that will look real smart when you have it fully glazed
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Scott
New Member
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Post by Scott on Apr 6, 2008 19:50:47 GMT
Thanks for that Jacob
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Post by promhandicam on Apr 7, 2008 17:04:33 GMT
Jacob Wow - that is some window! I hope it fits I was just wondering what the reasoning behind glazing the window before installing it is? I can see for a small window this wouldn't be a problem but for something that size, moving it into place is going to put quite a lot of stress on the frame and you risk cracking some of the panes. Steve |
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Apr 7, 2008 18:21:39 GMT
In situ would be really difficult mainly cos of height; lot of moving of scaffolding about and most of them are at first floor level.
l've got ten of them to do, and paint too, so fitting in with suitable weather would be difficult - I've been doing them with snow falling outside.
I got 2 out without breaking anything and they were pretty decrepit so the new ones should take the strain. They'll lift straight vertically off the move-able gantry with a block and tackle and get fitted from the inside, so won't get shifted about too much.
cheers
Jacob
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