Doors

[jake]

Neutral question - what do those who make doors and windows make of this set of doors, and particularly the section of the glazing bars?

The brief was as close to a pair of 4-light Victorian french doors as possible - those have standard sash window sized glazing bars - but they are narrower (hence 4 rather than 8 light) and obviously do not have to carry double glazing units.

Timber is iroko.

[mrgrimsdale]

Jun 26, 2008 8:48:55 GMT jake said:

Neutral question - what do those who make doors and windows make of this set of doors, and particularly the section of the glazing bars?

The brief was as close to a pair of 4-light Victorian french doors as possible - those have standard sash window sized glazing bars - but they are narrower (hence 4 rather than 8 light) and obviously do not have to carry double glazing units.

Timber is iroko.

Don't in any way look even vaguely like a pair of victorian 4 light french doors, or have I missed something?
brief was as close to a pair of 4-light Victorian french doors as possible: what's wrong with exact replica of ditto, that's as close as possible isn't it?
NB there are no standard glazing bars in Victorian joinery, in the modern sense. You get a a wide variety general designs repeated a lot, but rarely identical when you compare them. Most characteristic is how thin they are, down to 12mm even. 14, 15 mm common with tiny glazing rebates, 5mm max.

cheers
Jacob

[jake]

Sorry, my sentence was misleading. Facing on to the same patio we have another set of 4-light (per leaf) original victorian french doors - the opening there is much narrower, so they are four light. This opening is much wider, so they had to be 8 light (to keep the panes rectangular and in the right orientation).

The originals have typically slim victorian bars, (say 20mm max).

These are obviously massive by comparison. I understand it is impossible to have them as slim as the originals, because the BCO is insisting on 24mm DG (and I hadn't clocked onto the argon fill/wotsit glass at the time it was specified).

What I want to know is whether (given the 24mm dg units) they are as slim as sensibly possible.

I have my own view, obviously.

[mrgrimsdale]

I get asked a lot if I can do DG windows, or doors like yours, which will look Victorian, and I always say: no it's not possible. It's as simple as that.
And I wouldn't use iroko or any hardwood for a painted door - complete waste of wood, and pine is far better and more durable if painted.
I learnt early on that these sorts of compromise are a problem and life became much simpler when I decided on a purist perfect replica approach, no DG, no hardwood, replica details and design etc.
Sorry not much help, I guess these are your doors and you have an unhappy client

cheers
Jacob

[cadas]

I make quite few like this but there are only two options, one is for planted on glazing bars which can be as thin as you like.

Alternatively, I make the door slightly thicker and taper( using a moulding) the glazing bar so it has more depth and looks thinner.

With victorian glazing bars , the look comes from both the narrowness of the bar, but also the depth. In the picture, your windows look full of glass, there is no depth. On a victorian window the glass is set back

[jake]

That's the outside - they are deeper in section to give a good moulding depth on the inside.

[jfc]

Sorry Jake but no way around it as far as i can see . The glazing bars look big and ugly but it's the only way to actually get any kind of strength to hold the glass and pin a bead on .
I can send you a small sample of the moulding i use if you want to compare it but i think you will find it is the same size .
Are these internal doors ?

[jake]

External.

I've warmed to them since first seeing that photo last night - and I reckon they'll look better from the other side (which is more important).

[jfc]

Easy to pick holes in someone elses work i know but the bottom rail is a bit small for trad joinery . Also the thickness of the frame is a bit small and the cill section .
Of course it's not trad joinery and whoever made them had to deal with all the modern bullshit ...... i mean regs ;D