can you flatten oilstones

[mrgrimsdale]

Keep having a peep _{over there} via proxy server, under one of my many alias's. Looks kinda boring. What do you think? Is this place much different, if so in what way? Better answers here or there? I see people post same questions in both.

Lifting a thread: 'can you flatten oilstones' I'd say yes if you really want to, but don't bother as a hollow stone is good for camber on plane blades.Slight camber on chisels no prob.
But if you must flatten them - do it by careful distribution of your honing, to even out wear over the surface.

cheers
Jacob

[paulchapman]

On Saturday, a friend of mine, Pete Newton, showed me what he does with his ceramic stone, which he uses to put a final polish on his blades. After honing, he squirts a bit of WD40 on the stone and rubs it over with a diamond stone two or three times. This not only keeps it flat but removes any glazing and keeps it cutting fast. It really does work and the results were impressive. The same technique would probably work with conventional oil stones.

Cheers

Paul

[nickw]

Paul,

That raises a few interesting questions.

Firstly, in my experience, ceramic stones don't really glaze in the same way that others do, and the surface swarf is easily removed using webrax under the tap so there's no need to go for such extreme measures.

Secondly, isn't rubbing the ceramic with a diamond going to change the 'grit' of the ceramic stone so that it matches the diamond one? If so why bother with the ceramic one at all? That would certainly explain the faster cutting afterwards, but a ceramic stone, particularly in the very fine grades, is really about a final polish (cave honing on leather/MDF/whatever), not quick metal removal.

However, given some people's opinions that ceramic stones don't come flat enough, it may be worth trying to flatten one, and then see if it beds back in to its proper grit with a bit of use. Does anyone know if the material and properties of a ceramic stone are uniform throughout? Is there a danger in removing the original surface that you might break through into material with different properties (a bit like the surfaces vs the main body of MDF)?

[paulchapman]

Hi Nick,

I understand what you are saying but what Pete does really does seem to work.

You are right, there is generally a problem with ceramic stones not being flat. However, both Pete and Rob Stoakley were lucky in that they managed to buy one each where one side was flat.

In theory, rubbing it with a fine diamond stone would alter the grit of the ceramic stone but it doesn't seem to - at least not in a significant way. Being white, the metal removal showed up and it was easy to see how without rubbing the surface with the diamond stone, the honing was less effective.

After honing, Pete romoves any wire edge by drawing the edge of the blade through the end grain of a piece of softwood. The edge he obtains is really razor sharp - I'm so impressed I might get one some time.

As with so many things, there's theory and practice and in this case the two seem to be a bit different

Cheers

Paul

[mrgrimsdale]

You only need a flat stone if you are struggling with honing jigs. Freehand it doesn't matter (within reason) as there is always a flattish bit where you can take the wire edge off the face.
I flattened a stone by mistake (following conventional sharpening advice) and found it difficult to camber plane blades.

cheers
Jacob
PS you often find that old, well-used oil-stones are hollow. Thats not because they were neglected, pending flattening, it's because the old user was quite happy with them that way

[engineerone]

it would however jacob be interesting to know whence commeth the oilstone.

the essence of the sharpening debate in many ways is the perceived difference these days between cabinet making and joinery /general carpentry.

one mainly takes place on site, the other in a workshop, hence the sharpening demands are in fact different.

these days there are few, specialised cabinet making organisations and much is done by amateurs, often returning to the interest. most have never been trained so do not really understand "SHARP" tools thus will look for items which are perceived to make life easier. guides are a good example.

on site, in general stuff is just thrown into and around the toolbox, and sharpening stuff is often not cared for as much
as in a workshop.

spent more time over the weekend sharpening for a mate. how these tools are able to be used i will never know many had 1/8th nicks in them. yet, only a short time to re organise them.

but based on this experience again, the latest irwins do not hold an edge very well

if you are happy that your sharpening does what you want, then why worry what others do, unless someone in person asks you the question.? ;D

paul

[mrgrimsdale]

Jun 30, 2008 10:26:28 GMT engineerone said:

the essence of the sharpening debate in many ways is the perceived difference these days between cabinet making and joinery /general carpentry.

one mainly takes place on site, the other in a workshop, hence the sharpening demands are in fact different.

90% of my joinery is in the workshop, with occasional trips out to fit stuff

these days there are few, specialised cabinet making organisations and much is done by amateurs, often returning to the interest. most have never been trained so do not really understand "SHARP" tools thus will look for items which are perceived to make life easier. guides are a good example.

IMHO they make it harder, that's my main point. Not alone : www.antiquetools.com/sharp/index.html

if you are happy that your sharpening does what you want, then why worry what others do, unless someone in person asks you the question.? ;D

paul

I don't worry, but people do keep asking the question.
The thing with chat groups - you think aloud, not just to hear your own voice, but to get responses which might be useful.

cheers
Jacob

[gidon]

Secondly, isn't rubbing the ceramic with a diamond going to change the 'grit' of the ceramic stone so that it matches the diamond one? If so why bother with the ceramic one at all? That would certainly explain the faster cutting afterwards, but a ceramic stone, particularly in the very fine grades, is really about a final polish (cave honing on leather/MDF/whatever), not quick metal removal.

I've used a extra coarse diamond stone on one side of my ceramic stone - the other side I've not touched with any stone. Both sides seem to cut the same. From what I've read on the web (and there's not that much information on these ceramic stones), the Spyderco Ultra Fine stone has a different binder and uses a different firing technique to achieve a finer grit. The grit can't be changed.

However, given some people's opinions that ceramic stones don't come flat enough, it may be worth trying to flatten one, and then see if it beds back in to its proper grit with a bit of use. Does anyone know if the material and properties of a ceramic stone are uniform throughout? Is there a danger in removing the original surface that you might break through into material with different properties (a bit like the surfaces vs the main body of MDF)?

The Spyderco Ultra Fine stone differs from the coarser stones in that it is surface ground flat - you can see the surface grinder marks show up black as you hone. I removed these surface grinder marks with my extra coarse diamond stone (on the one side).

I find it cuts very slowly - it really is a polishing stone in my opinion but does a decent job and can replace stropping to some degree.

Cheers

Gidon

[jay]

I have an old oil stone that I flatten/fluff up whenever I need to flatten the back of something. With a fresh dressed surface it cuts quickly and there's no worries about wearing out expensive diamond stones or munching through endless sheets of wet and dry or squishing soft water stones into odd shapes. Seems to work well enough.

--edit--
On altering grit sizes, it occurs to me that you're not going to make the particle size substantially bigger than it already is. You may get some variation, but I suspect that's not a million miles away from what you get to start off with.

[garywayne]

Re, can you flatten oilstones

Yes. I use a flat flag stone with sand and water. Sprinkle sand onto the flag stone, add water, then rub the oilstone upon the sand and water mix.