Spindle moulder tooling

[simuk]

Hello folks

I have a Jet JWS-34 LX Spindle Moulder, which i am going to purchase some tooling for in the near future , namely a rebate block with scribes.

Apart from price what is the difference between steel & aluminum blocks?

Also is it OK to use a manual cutter on a power feed?

Should i not bother with a rebate block & go straight for a shear rebate block?

Thanks in advance

Simon

[jay]

Don't be taking this the wrong way you utter post mislocating barsteward;) but I do really like the fact that this forum's woodwork section is for general woodwork with a separate specific section for power tool and machinery issues, unlike the other forum where general woodwork meant power tools. Other than that I have no idea I'm afraid and can't help. Sorry.

[jfc]

Hi Sim , The alley blocks are lighter although when running they are weightless . I like them because i think it puts less strain on the smaller spindles like mine on start up and braking .

I use my power feed on everything so i suppose its ok but i'm not quite sure what you are asking . As for the block i would go for the best you can afford . I have bought blocks in the past only to wish i had bought the better one when a job comes up where i could have used it .

[simuk]

Hi Jfc

Thanks for replying,
well been looking around at tooling and noticed the steel blocks are more money than the ally, and i don't understand why, even more now as you have just given me another reason as to why i should go with the ally easier starting & stopping and all that.

Going to be buying manual feed blocks to start off with, as i havent got a power feeder. But when i do get a power feeder, will i still be able to use the manual cutter blocks.

Logic tells me i can , but like to double check everything, when i use spindle moulder

[Keith]

As far as I know you can't power feed with an ally block and blocks sold as manual will not take the stresses imposed by power feeding.

[jonnyd]

Hi you can use the manual feed blocks no problem with the power feed. Even with a power feed it is still necessary to have chip limiter tooling. I dont know your spindle moulder but i would go with the alloy blocks if its not too heavy duty. I also much prefer the shear cut rebate blocks and would recommend a 60mm block over a 50mm if you can afford it as it is more versatile. I use whitehill mainly for my tooling.

Jon

[jfc]

I agree on double checking everything regarding spindle moulding ! I never thought using manual feed block with a power feed was an issue but using power fed blocks manually is . Maybe someone else can confirm this ?
I think the steel blocks are prefered by bigger joinery companies as the are more robust and they have joiners that havnt paid for the block using them . If you have paid out for the block you make double sure you dont drop it !

Edit ; ops a few posts as i was typing .

[jonnyd]

I am not an expert but i thought the power fed blocks were only to be used on large planer moulders and four cutters and not by power feed on a spindle.

jon

[jfc]

I dunno , i have a 100mm cove cutter steel block from NLS / Whitehill and they know my spindle moulder set up . I'm sure they would have said (and have in the past) if it wasnt ok to use with my machine .

[Keith]

Where's Scrit when you need him!

What I now gather is,

MAN is a certification for the tooling, these can be hand or power fed.

MECH certified tooling can only be used on specialist machines, not on spindles even with a power feed.

What confused me is that Felder have MAN certified tooling which they show as for hand feeding and they have BG Test tooling (a lot more expensive) which I was told was suited to power feeding although they can still be hand fed.

[jfc]

Keith , why are you buying felder tooling ? Is it cheaper than whitehill ?

[Keith]

Jul 13, 2008 19:16:15 GMT jfc said:

Keith , why are you buying felder tooling ? Is it cheaper than whitehill ?

I don't know, especially when I don't even have a spindle moulder


It's coming a week on Tuesday ;D

I've just bought a couple to get me started, a shear cut rebate head and a safety cutter head set, special offer as I was spending my life's savings with them.

[jfc]

May be worth shopping around mate . I get cutters and block from NLS and they are direct from Whitehill but i get NLS discount . Also dont forget cutting solutions on this forum .
Then again i know you have spent a fair few quid with Felder so maybe you are getting a good deal .

I did warn you about the cost of tooling ;D But keep buying cutters mate and the spindle will soon pay for itself .

On spindle moulder tooling i would say only buy a block when you need it , get your cutter collection up and then if you need a bigger block to run the cutters then buy it . That way the job pays for it . I find that everything i want to do is not sold off the peg so i have to have it made but i do look at all the options before i decide nothing will do the job . I prefer to spend the £100 on having them machined for me so i have cutters and limeters that are spot on .

[woodworker]

You can use manual blocks with or without a power feeder, it doesn,t matter if they are alloy or steel, I have some big alloy blocks one is 125mm X 100mm deep (with it's cutters on it's over 175mm wide X 100mm and use it with a power feeder.

The alloy blocks are just lighter, they cut just as well as steel ones. They are good for small moulders around the 2hp range as they cut down the start load on the motor and drive train, in fact too big a steel block on a 2hp moulder and it simply won't spin up.






..

[Keith]

I think it will take me a while to get full use out of the spindle. I used one a long time ago and that used to scare me whitless, so I'll just use it to cut rebates for a while

The tooling is so expensive, I'm going to have to shop round and only buy as and when needed.

I don't plan to make my own cutters, like you say if I need one for a job it gets priced into the quote.

[cuttingsolutions]

Jul 13, 2008 18:59:24 GMT Keith said:

What I now gather is,

MAN is a certification for the tooling, these can be hand or power fed.

MECH certified tooling can only be used on specialist machines, not on spindles even with a power feed.

What confused me is that Felder have MAN certified tooling which they show as for hand feeding and they have BG Test tooling (a lot more expensive) which I was told was suited to power feeding although they can still be hand fed.

Correct!
One of the biggest errors people believe is that you can use MEC tools with the power feed......IT IS NOT PEMITTED. Though many "home" users do get away with it.

MAN tools can be used with or without a power feed.


BG-Test is a standard given in Germany that states the tool has been manufactured to a given standard/design. They shouldnt be more expensive...persay....as most tool designs have been around for years. It has nothing to do with MEC and MAN.


I too am surprised that some alloy heads are cheaper than the steel equivalent. It might be they are made to "low end user" tolerances and mass produced.

Dave

[simuk]

Thanks for replying everyone

So a alloy shear rebate block it is then.

Could someone explain what is meant by the term "drawing cutters" when refering to a rebate block?

thanks

Simon

Oh yeah where is Scrit?

[cuttingsolutions]

Simon

I noticed someone recommended a 60mm shear rebate block....I would not advise that. with the shearing action you will not get a flat finish across the 60 mm length....Its quite complex to explain....to get a flat finish on 60 mm you need to have "special" knives ground with a radius in them....
Dave

[jonnyd]

Hi i have been using a whitehill 60mm shearcut rebate block for about 3 years and have never noticed the finish not being flat. I acknowledge your superior knowledge on spindle tooling but for me this has never been a problem.

jon

[nickw]

Hmmm, interesting one that. If you image a very exaggerated shear blade on a block (say at 45 degrees) it becomes clear that the radius swept by the outer edges of the blade will be larger than that at the centre. This will give a convex surface to the timber. Of course with the actual few degrees of shear present on real blocks this convexity will be relatively small, but nontheless present.

[andy]

Mmm so thats why my lawn is never flat after I've mowed it ;D

Never really gave it any thought as (being an engineer of sorts) I'm use to cutters with helix angles and a shear block has straight blades but would have thought the amount of curvature would be small but present as Nick's post

Dave (cuttingsolutions) what size radius do you have to grind in order to give a flat finish?

[jonnyd]

I was getting a bit paranoid that i had been churning out curved rebates for the last 3 years. I checked today with an engineers square and a torch on a 55mm rebate that i had just done and it was pefectly flat no curvature what so ever. Perhaps it has to do with the steepness of the shear angle.

jon

[modernist]

If your feed speed was zero it would be perfectly flat. Also bear in mind that a vertical cutter also leaves scallops in a vertical plane - these are just a bit skewed.

Brian

[simuk]

Jul 14, 2008 18:09:51 GMT simuk said:

Thanks for replying everyone

So a alloy shear rebate block it is then.

Could someone explain what is meant by the term "drawing cutters" when refering to a rebate block?

thanks

Simon

Oh yeah where is Scrit?

Anyone?

[modernist]

I think it is a literal translation from the German for what we call scribing cutters. Are you looking at the Felder catalogue?

Brian