Planes

[simuk]

Hi Folks

I have a question about hand planes that don't quite come up to scratch in the manufacturing process. I am sure i have read somewhere that these planes are sold at tool fairs at discounted prices by salesman,.

If this is the case are they marked in some way to show that they are a seconds.

I am thinking more of the higher end brands.

Simon

[engineerone]

plainly all manufacturers end up with seconds,
or sub standard products. and some of them, in particular,
the high end brands actually do offer them for sale in special circumstances.

not sure whether the two american brands that we all know
do it in the uk, but i believe that clifton do occassionally, at certain
exhibitions in the uk.

plainly, the most important thing is the kind of damage that
the manufacturer says is "not top notch" generally it would not
be noticeable to normal users, but is not to the top of their standards, so they need to decide whether they can jeopardise their hard won reputation by selling as good, or second.

the most important thing from the manufacturers point of view
is that the "defect" is so small that it would not affect usage
of the item. in my past experience, the manufacturer will always
mark the packaging in such a way as to show they are sub standard.

hope that helps

paul

[Rob Lee]

Jul 28, 2008 19:25:02 GMT simuk said:

Hi Folks

I have a question about hand planes that don't quite come up to scratch in the manufacturing process. I am sure i have read somewhere that these planes are sold at tool fairs at discounted prices by salesman,.

If this is the case are they marked in some way to show that they are a seconds.

I am thinking more of the higher end brands.

Simon

Hi Simon -

I can tell you we don't release seconds to the general public. We offer them to staff, donate them to schools, or scrap them. Most seconds we have are indistinguishable from firsts - so we do mark them in some way (I beleive we drill a partial (not through!) hole near the casting number).

Most higher end manufacturers don't want seconds floating about ....

Cheers -

Rob Lee
Veritas Tools

[jfc]

Most higher end manufacturers don't want seconds floating about ....

Why dont you sell them to me then ;D

[engineerone]

why is your boat anchor not heavy enough ;D

having spent money establishing a brand name, it is important to keep it properly supported. what most people forget is that when they have bought something cheap, and it goes wrong, they tend to blame the whole range not their cheap item.

years ago at gm, we supported a canadian driving team, at the end of their summer tours one of my jobs was to scrap the vehicles. the number of people who tried to bribe me not to scrap the tyres was incredible, including some i thought had brains.

what no one could understand was that if they had an accident, no one would say oh they were used tyres taken off a stunt team car, they would always say oh i bought them from XXXXX

not good news for a brand.

paul

[jfc]

I didnt say i was going to use them did i

[simuk]

Thanks for the replies, anyone got ideas regarding the others


Simon

[simuk]

Update for this thread:

I have recently found out that Clifton release seconds on to the market.
They are marked On both side of the plane with a B to signifier they are a second. These planes work as good as there A grade planes. They are just damaged cosmetically.

Simon

[jay]

Jul 31, 2008 11:19:29 GMT Rob Lee said:

I can tell you we don't release seconds to the general public. We offer them to staff, donate them to schools, or scrap them. Most seconds we have are indistinguishable from firsts - so we do mark them in some way (I beleive we drill a partial (not through!) hole near the casting number).

Most higher end manufacturers don't want seconds floating about ...

Having recently bought one of those pesky chamfer guides that don't quite fit my block plane I'm a little uncomfortable that the preferred solution seems to be to replace (and presumably bin) the otherwise perfectly decent plane; which strikes me as being unnecessarily wasteful.

[engineerone]

what kind of plane did you try to fit it too jay? whilst in know it is supposed to be universal i am sure there are differences between all types even block planes

but i do agree it seems wasteful to throw these things away, can you try to explain why it did not fit??

as for your bu comments i do agree, the bu is much easier to adjust both blade and the mouth, and somehow your input seems much more simple and accurate, whereas with the bd it seems such a faff.

paul

[jay]

Veritas' low angle block plane - to which the chamfer guide is designed to fit. At some point Veritas changed the spec and increased the thickness of the sole of the LABP by a shim. Veritas have resolved the problem in my case by offering to replace both chamfer guide and surprisingly the plane too, which I'd rather avoid as the plane is otherwise sound and has given good service.