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Post by corset on Jul 24, 2008 20:58:06 GMT
I have been experiment with spraying some Wickes water based gloss onto MDF with an earlex HVLP system. I have coated with two coats of primer with a roller.
After some trial and error i have been spraying the gloss at 20% dilution which has gone on great and looks good. However......... after two days the first coat is stilll tacky to the touch. Is this because its ready for another coat? or Has the mix been too diluted or is something more basic wrong.
Aby suggestions greatfully received as I want to spray another coat tommorrow and need a plan of attack.
Owen
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Post by lynx on Jul 24, 2008 21:06:47 GMT
don't use the wickes paint. Did the same with me, trying to cut a corner. Still tacky after a 5 days. Find a proper paint supplier close to home and try a pot from them. You'll find the spraying is easier with a better paint too.
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Post by corset on Jul 24, 2008 21:09:13 GMT
Cheers that was a quick response. I thought i had done something wrong. Any suggestions on a paint type. Would prefer to keep with water based gloss as i am spraying in the garage.
Owen
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Post by jfc on Jul 24, 2008 21:51:34 GMT
Teknos ! 01608 683 494 . Speak to them and tell them what you want to spray . Water based and what the trade use .
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Post by ''The village idiot'' on Jul 24, 2008 22:07:40 GMT
You need to use a precatalyst or A/C lacquer. Percat as the hardener already add while A/C is a two pack and you will need to add harder @ approximately 10%. A/C is the better out of the two (it’s a more harder wearing) but it only as a pot life of 36hrs, the pot life is the time you have after the hardener as been added. Precat is cellulose based and a single pack so is not affected by a pot life. With both you can apply up to 3 coats in a day. The first coat or coats is a sealer coat (primer) but it is also a primer filler paint so it will go a long in filling the grain be it solid timber or MDF. This is followed by a top coat or top coats, most can be applied coat on coat this means you can put top coat on top of top coat. Both are available pigmented and are normally available in 10% gloss (mat) to 90% gloss (full gloss). If the top coat you are spaying in sky blue, then you can have the primer sealer colour matched to sky blue. This means it the top coat got scratched you wont see a white primer sealer. I know of two national suppers Morrells and Fiddes |
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Post by ''The village idiot'' on Jul 24, 2008 22:08:59 GMT
Teknos ! 01608 683 494 . Speak to them and tell them what you want to spray . Water based and what the trade use . Not all the trade |
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Post by davyowen on Jul 24, 2008 22:16:18 GMT
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Post by lynx on Jul 24, 2008 22:18:42 GMT
I don't think he wants to spray any solvent based product in a single garage.
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Post by jfc on Jul 25, 2008 7:06:21 GMT
Ok It's what the trade that follow new technology are using now  ;D |
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Post by corset on Jul 25, 2008 7:50:28 GMT
Thank you all for the advice. I will go off to our local stockist of morrells paint and see what i can get. I will have a rematch tonight. Owen
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Post by lynx on Jul 25, 2008 7:56:26 GMT
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Post by jfc on Jul 25, 2008 8:08:00 GMT
Looks like you can only buy those ones in 5L . Teknos works out around £7 per L for the high build water based primer and comes in 1L if you need it .
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Post by engineerone on Jul 25, 2008 8:37:38 GMT
surely if you are undertaking spraying as an adjunct to your business as a carpenter/joiner, you should apply with the new rules that apply to garages. ie enclosed spaces, and non volatile paints?  certainly recently i know that a couple of car body shops have lost their cheap insurance because at the time of the inspection by the insurance assessor, they were still not properly using their paints, and thus were considered unsafe. whilst it may not be illegal to spray volatiles these days, it is certainly something which would impact on any insurance claims, and should be properly stored in locked, metal containers. also you need fewer expensive breathing aids to spray non volatiles. paul |
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Post by sainty on Jul 25, 2008 16:55:32 GMT
Sorry to "dampen" the enthusiasm for water based finishes, but I was taking to a rep from a well known/recommended wood finish supplier today who suggested that their waterborne finishes weren't quite upto the standard of their a/c lacquers when used in a kitchen environment. He said that their waterborne finish stained when exposed to water.
I was a bit gutted when he told me this, as I had phoned up to order some w/b lacquers. I thought that it would be good to get into waterborne finishes (health, safety, insurances etc) but if they aren't up too the job what do you do?
I think I will give Teknos a call to gauge their response. It wasn't Fiddes either.
rgds
Stu
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Post by lynx on Jul 25, 2008 17:51:03 GMT
You did you ring?
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Post by ''The village idiot'' on Jul 25, 2008 17:53:57 GMT
Sorry to "dampen" the enthusiasm for water based finishes, but I was taking to a rep from a well known/recommended wood finish supplier today who suggested that their waterborne finishes weren't quite upto the standard of their a/c lacquers when used in a kitchen environment. He said that their waterborne finish stained when exposed to water. I was a bit gutted when he told me this, as I had phoned up to order some w/b lacquers. I thought that it would be good to get into waterborne finishes (health, safety, insurances etc) but if they aren't up too the job what do you do? I think I will give Teknos a call to gauge their response. It wasn't Fiddes either. rgds Stu I too spoke to a couple of company reps and I was told by both in clear lacquers the finish as a milky appearance to them and not up to the same standard as AC lacquers but did reach the guides lines in 'severe use' So may be better the devil you know than the devil you don't |
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Post by lynx on Jul 25, 2008 18:29:13 GMT
WB lacquers go on milky but dries crystal clear. AC have a slight pigment that darkens the timber, which in turn makes a simular sample in WB look milky.
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Post by mailee on Jul 25, 2008 19:19:28 GMT
I have to agree on the water based finishes not being up to scratch. At work we spray cars and although we use water based base coat we still use a cat laquer for the clear finish. So far the water based clear finish isn't good enough for the motor trade yet even though new regulations are coming into force which dictates we must use water based! We also have air driers in the booth to help dry the water based base coat before the clear coat is applied. On more than one occasion the base has bubbled through the clear coat in the oven as it wasn't dry enough to re-coat. Needless to say it has slowed production down using water based.  |
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Post by engineerone on Jul 25, 2008 19:36:31 GMT
well you could always use johnson's kleer, as a varnish, we use it on models, and also on the floor of course ;D and it does not go milky when exposed to water after drying properly paul |
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Post by davyowen on Jul 25, 2008 20:25:03 GMT
As lynx has said, WB lacquers do not colour the wood in any way, they create a crystal clear finish but do appear milky in the bottle and immediately after application.
I was a tad disapponted the first time I used them after using nitro because it doesn't give natural wood that warming effect that a 'clear' solvent based product will, but I certainly am not missing the mask, gloves, lingering smell and the expense of purchasing and disposing of the solvents required for clean-up/thinning.
And fair enough if waterbased lacquer isn't up to standard for automotive use but for furniture use it's unlikely to be put through the conditions that a car has to endure. I also have never experienced any staining when exposed to water, even when using the cheapo Toolstation acrylic WB lacquer which I found to be tougher and easier to work with than the nitro I had been using prevously.
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ivan
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by ivan on Aug 3, 2008 10:50:57 GMT
I thought waterbase would be worth trying for respraying (in situ, white matt) some built in wardrobes. Enquiring of the other mfr, was told "you can but you won't like it". But I remember reading in F&C that the bloke with the eyepatch did his own kitchen with Aquacote some years ago and was still happy. Bolloms used to carry Resithane (US product) waterbase pre cat which had good ratings in the FW, but have stopped trading.
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;D
