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Post by mrgrimsdale on Sept 2, 2008 6:57:10 GMT
Was just browsing here and wondered abt the dowels in the surface of the table. A loose tenon and a pattern of draw bored dowels is a common trad way of joining boards, but these look a bit odd. Maybe the photo. Is there something different going on here? IMHO Mouseman furniture a bit clunky but makes a very refreshing change from all that flash post-modern po-faced stuff that everybody gets so excited about ;D cheers Jacob |
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Post by paulchapman on Sept 2, 2008 7:22:37 GMT
wondered abt the dowels in the surface of the table. Looks like it was an attempt to halt the splits that had developed in the top - possibly a repair some time after the table was made  Cheers  Paul |
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Post by engineerone on Sept 2, 2008 9:29:03 GMT
like the view through the window, all that hand planing wonder if the plates slide up and down ;D nice though, and the dowels are either the cause or the solution to the problem. so where's the mouse paul |
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Post by Dave S on Sept 2, 2008 12:31:53 GMT
You can say that again!! Not my cup of tea at all. C**p website, too. What would you categorise as 'flash post-modern po-faced stuff'? The clue is in the description Dave |
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Post by engineerone on Sept 2, 2008 12:50:41 GMT
dave i knew he was called the mouse man, but everything else of his i have seen i can actually see the mouse running up and down somewhere, it is carved in. now call me silly, but if i were selling such a piece i would photograph the mouse and show it in the list  paul |
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Post by paulchapman on Sept 2, 2008 13:07:48 GMT
Oi, Silly, it says: "Although this particular table does not have the signature mouse it is a genuine oak refectory table made by Robert Thompson of Kilburn and has been fully authenticated by two experts from the major auctioneers Bonhams. It was quite normal for church and school commissions not to have a mouse carved due to the extra cost. It took an extra 45 minutes per mouse. The church was also not keen to be seen to advertise any particular brand or manufacturer." ;D ;D Cheers Paul |
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Sept 2, 2008 18:27:14 GMT
You can say that again!! Not my cup of tea at all. C**p website, too. Oh I dunno, more shambolic than out-and-out crap, I'd say.See the banana stand thread for po-faced stuff ;D ;D cheers Jacob |
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Post by jfc on Sept 2, 2008 18:49:39 GMT
I like his stuff but then i like older joinery . Its just nicer IMHO .
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Post by engineerone on Sept 2, 2008 19:09:29 GMT
silly moi ;D i guess the question then is if so called painting experts can change their attribution of van gochs who trusts the guy who takes it to bonhams  mind you like jason, i like some older things paul |
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Post by Dave S on Sept 2, 2008 19:29:17 GMT
]Oh I dunno, more shambolic than out-and-out crap, I'd say. Ok, maybe I was a little harsh, but I get so fed up with sites that are supposed to show something and then they have such pathetically small pictures. Ahh..... well that kind of stuff is even less my cup of tea, so no disagreement there! ;D Dave |
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Post by seanybaby on Sept 3, 2008 0:04:41 GMT
Small pics on websites gets on my tits!! Especially when they are charging the earth for their work? But are they??
Overheads and all that, i cant see myself starting a furniture business in this country at all at the moment!
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Post by modernist on Sept 4, 2008 20:47:23 GMT
Last time I looked in the MM's workshop it was all very twee with hand made iron fittings and very high prices. designed to take money from americans, nothing wrong with that, but interesting furniture - not for me.
brian
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Sept 4, 2008 21:20:55 GMT
Not for me either, the first few times I had a look. But it's grown on me somehow. A bit plain and wholesome, like oat cakes, yorkshire things, brown bread, brass bands etc. I bet they all wear clogs in Kilburn ;D Perhaps it's the contrast with the deeply decadent and dull celebration of craftsmanship stuff - and cheaper too! cheers Jacob |
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Post by jake on Sept 4, 2008 23:07:09 GMT
I'm sorry but that table is hideous. The top is ok - I quite like the textured surface - but that's the only thing of any interest about it, and the base is just lumpen.
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Post by modernist on Sept 5, 2008 15:24:57 GMT
Not for me either, the first few times I had a look. But it's grown on me somehow. A bit plain and wholesome, like oat cakes, yorkshire things, brown bread, brass bands etc. Too A & C for me - lacking in finesse.I bet they all wear clogs in Kilburn ;D Perhaps it's the contrast with the deeply decadent and dull celebration of craftsmanship stuff - and cheaper too! I went to that last year and, to be fair, there was a quite a bit of good stuff interspersed with the cr*p. Prices were astronomic and I didn't see any goods leaving the premises. That sideboard on the left was very good but looked like it had been hawked around a few exhibitions looking for a buyer to judge by the bumps and bruises
Briancheers Jacob |
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Sept 5, 2008 17:10:33 GMT
Yes, no finesse I suppose, and lumpy, but admirable in some yorkshire puddingy sort of way.
I rather have that table than that banana stand! You could clog dance on the table.
cheers
Jacob
PS what about the pegs by the way? PaulC says repair. But you can't stop splits in wood with a peg or a hole, if anything it'd make it worse, I'da thought.
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Post by Dan Tovey on Sept 5, 2008 17:52:32 GMT
what about the pegs by the way? PaulC says repair. But you can't stop splits in wood with a peg or a hole, if anything it'd make it worse, I'da thought. Looks pretty obvious to me. Some herbert screwed the top onto the base with screws that were too long! Repaired the holes with dowels hoping that he could fool the experts on an internet forum 50 years in the future. Nearly worked, too! |
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Sept 5, 2008 17:59:51 GMT
You could be right! But then how did they join the boards?
cheers
Jacob
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Post by paulchapman on Sept 5, 2008 20:02:38 GMT
PaulC says repair. But you can't stop splits in wood with a peg or a hole, if anything it'd make it worse, I'da thought. I've seen dowels used to repair splits when they go right to the edge. You drill a hole through the edge of the table top along the centre of the split and glue in a long dowel. So they are sometimes used. Not sure how successful they are when used in the way they have been in the table in question Cheers Paul |
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Sept 6, 2008 8:51:18 GMT
I've zoomed in on one:   They are straightforward draw-bored pegs + loose tenons but the arrangement is not consistent. Some of the others are too close to the edge, or are too tightly draw-bored, or the table went through a damp period and pulled the tenons, or a bit of bad luck - they line up with a weak line inspite of being scattered to avoid hitting the same bit of grain. cheers Jacob |
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Post by engineerone on Sept 6, 2008 10:04:38 GMT
i would guess considering where the item is on sale, you have to wonder how they can provenance the repairs none of us could believe that it was built with the dowels, unless it was made to use up wood that was already split, and to add some kind of pattern it does make you wonder whether it was rubbed joints, or there are some kinds of loose tenons holding the planks together. so i think the question might well be is it still a mouse table, since it has been repaired at some point, and "not" very well since it is so visible, unless you can prove somehow that the mouseman actually did the repairs, and you wonder whether he would. paul |
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Sept 6, 2008 10:36:07 GMT
Not repair, is original IMHO.
It's a common and effective way of joining heavy boards in trad tables, i.e. loose tenons and draw-bored pegs.
Whats slightly odd is the differing layout, and being too near the edges. They are normally staggered though - to avoid too much tension along one bit of the grain.
cheers
Jacob
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Post by engineerone on Sept 6, 2008 21:00:54 GMT
reason i think it is a repair jacob is that the pattern does not seem sensible for one that you would build, it has no design paul |
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Sept 6, 2008 22:54:12 GMT
If you drag and drop the table top into "preview" or PC equivalent you can zoom in and see that the top row of pegs is kosher - neat and regular in opposing arrays of 4, but the bottom row is untidy, and with splits.
Maybe the apprentice did the bottom row and the table is 2nds quality or summat
cheers
Jacob
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