Fein Multimaster or Bosch 180E

[misterfish]

Hi

I have some (=80sq m) of solid oak flooring to lay upstairs throughout our landing and four bedrooms. This will involve trimming of door reveals and skirtings in various places which looks like being both awkward and fiddly.

Looking around I have seen various questions and comments about the Fein and Bosch machines but usually people own the Fein and actually have no practical hands on experience of the Bosch. So I was wondering that as this has now been available for a time has anybody used one 'in earnest' and if so how did you find it?

The Fein machine and blades seem a lot more expensive and I (or should I say SWMBO) need convincing that going for the expensive option would be worthwhile just for our own domestic use.

So any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks

Misterfish

[handytim]

Sounds like quite a lot skirting. There is a special blade available for angle grinders, which would be cheaper than a fein. I've seen a photo of it, but I can't remember where, sorry! Perhaps someone knows what I mean, and can post a photo.

[handytim]

Found it ;D

www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=23535&filter_cat=&manufacturer_id=Arbortech&name=&user_search=&sfile=1&jump=44

[jonnyd]

In the past i have used a biscuit jointer to accurately trim off skirking boards. You just need a baseboard of the correct thickness for the jointer to run along at the correct height. A multimaster or bosch machine would be usefull for the corners. I have a multimaster and wouldnt fancy doing a whole room with it as it would be painfully slow and probably take £30 of blades to do the job.

jon

[jfc]

I would remove the skirtings . Cut the doors with a plane . The damage from removing the skirtings will be hidden ( if you are carefull ) because when you replace them they will be higher .
I have also seen a biscuit jointer used to trim skirtings , not tried it but i would use one if the job came up .
Ive not done a floor in a while but the last few i ran off the skirtings in the same material as the floor .

[engineerone]

can't see why you need to cut the skirting, since you need to leave the expansion gap, and generally you cover the gap with coving or half round section, so the only place you need to consider any tool is the door, and maybe round the door.

as jason says the door is better planed off the hinges, not least since the last proper tool for that did not sell very well, and is no longer available. but round the door you still tend to leave the expansion gap.

i have the fein, and would use it but some who have tried the bosch also like that, but i think fein have more tools/ blades available,

paul

[oldboy]

Would agree with engineerone but if not convinced would do the wall with biscuit jointer and take a bosh for the corners

[jake]

Sept 20, 2008 23:15:36 GMT engineerone said:

generally you cover the gap with coving or half round section, so the only place you need to consider any tool is the door

Yuck. I hate that bodge.

[engineerone]

whilst i agree with you about the coving or section over the edges of the laminate, how do you hide the expansion gap jake???

not every body can or wants to remove and replace the skirting, and under cutting it is a time consuming and not very accurate
process, so what do you do??

paul

[woodworker]

Oct 28, 2008 12:34:51 GMT jake said:

Sept 20, 2008 23:15:36 GMT engineerone said:

generally you cover the gap with coving or half round section, so the only place you need to consider any tool is the door

Yuck. I hate that bodge.

Sorry, but me too.

[jake]

I'd take the skirtings off and re-fix them - actually, on the terms of your question, I wouldn't, because I wouldn't go within 100 yards of laminate to start with.

[engineerone]

ok, that i understand, but what about putting solid wood
over planks on?? and how do you guarantee to not break the
original skirting??

in some houses in which i have worked, the original wooden floorboards cannot be saved in such a way as they are nice to look at, so what do you do then??

paul

[jake]

All sorts of things, but not laminate with a gap hidden by a bodgy old bit of beading.

[engineerone]

i'm always intregued by those who claim categorically that they will never use certain materials.

at some time we all have to face a shrinking wallet so what do you do then? even lawyers go skint

paul

[jake]

I'd rather have carpet/sisal/whatever than laminate. I'd rather have plain MDF on the floor come to that - at least it would be honest and not a faked up photo of something it is not.

But anyway, that's a personal side issue - if someone else wants laminate, that's fine, but please install it without doing gash bodges around the edges!

[engineerone]

whilst i appreciate your personal view, it is difficult to understand
how you would overcome the problems of working in some post war properties, particularly those built after 1970.

barrett homes are a particular problem since many of them are built somewhat like the american ones in that plaster board and baseboards are used in many rooms. so baseboards are the american version of skirtings. it is difficult to remove those and re install without understanding the building methods.

another important criteria these days is the almost universal use by many builders of silicon caulk at the intersection of all walls/ floors, wallpaper and ceilings etc. this is a particular thing that many local council contracts require, and thus when workers go on and do outside work, they take those practices with them.

so the question again is how, if you don't remove the skirting,
how do you hide the expansion joints??


paul

[jake]

If you cant be arsed to remove or cut the skirting boards (or baseboards if you want to use US terminology) then obviously you have to use that gash bodge. That's why you remove them.

I may be missing something, but I don't understand what your problem is with taking skirtings off a plasterboard wall? At worst, they are glued and some of paper comes off.

Sounds like an ideal time to upgrade the 'baseboards' (I assume by that you mean skimpy short thin skirting without any moulding to speak of?) to me - a few quid on the job for a proper result.

[engineerone]

as usual jake we will not agree, but overnight, i checked out some photos, and noticed that many older homes with parquet
flooring have mouldings on their intersection with the wall/baseboard/skirting.

that is something that goes back to the start of parquet, so
was that a bodge??

i am certain that if i took all the skirtings off in my present place
i would end up having to replaster many of the walls too, if
i only want to replace flooring, that is not something i would necessarily budget for.

so why does that make it a bodge, and of course the next part of the question is what do you use for skirting

paul

[jake]

I've had to replaster many walls, but I've never done damage to a wall which has made it need replastering by taking off the skirting boards - and that is with the crumbliest and hollowest lime plaster which has the feeblest grip on the wall.

If someone has done that gash bodge with parquet it is still a gash bodge, yes. I've never seen (in real life) a parquet floor with beading around the edge, but I take your word that the bodge is an old one. Old-timers were just as capable of doing crass awful looking things, you know.

Choice of skirting is way off topic - how about picking one you/they like which suits the style of the house/room?

[engineerone]

since we have gone so far ot, i will return to the original point

my experience is only with the fein which was all that was available when i bought it. i believe that the latest incarnation of this is even better, since the introduction of the star connector
which stops the attachments moving round.

i think to compare it with the bosch is a little off, since you are really comparing them like festo and dewalt. we all have our favourites.

however i know a couple of people who have the bosch and they seem happy with them, i just wonder about the life span.

personally were i to buy again i would go for the latest cordless fein.

what is really great is the sanding capability.

paul

[jake]

I agree on the Fein and the star connector (the adaptor improves the old model immensely).

What I don't like is the cost of the blades and how they just lose all their teeth at any given opportunity . Have bought some of the bi-metallics to try out next time there is an outside chance of hitting a nail or whatever.

[engineerone]

having never really checked, i wonder whether there are any bosch accessories which are either (a) cheaper or (b) better
than the fein.

certainly bosch stuff would be more mass production. i think that is the problem with the fein the sales are obviously lower than someone like bosch, so their costs are going to be higher.

being the bodger, ;D i must say that although the blades on a couple of the saws did lose their teeth, i found they still kept cutting. actually i think the only problem with the fein is that it gives you the impression of so much strength and power from only a 180 watt motor, that you keep the action going, which can overheat and break the teeth.

the bi metallic ones are certainly very good. however as i said, the sanding ability is the real mind blower, it seems not to move, yet removes a major amount of wood.

i wonder in fact whether the biggest problem with the tool is until you have bought one and used it, you do not believe that it can do all the things it says in the brochure. so maybe it seems to do more than you think it should.


paul

[scraper]

I've got a Multimaster with the star type shaft, and also have the new blue cordless Bosch, which has the old-style Fein plain round shaft for the attachments.

Fein sell a little addaptor thingy which you put on the plain shaft to grip the star-type really well. It costs about six quid IIRC and really works. I use it on the Bosch to use the newer Fein blades etc.

As for the cordless Bosch I think it's superb. A little bit more mechanical noise from the front end than my Fein, but is a really capable tool.

I re-sharpen the blades with a Dremel and a small diamond disc. You can even grind new teeth and it's a quick process!

[jake]

Might have to give that a go (retoothing).

Every time a £10-£15 blade goes semi-toothless (it's nails in floorboard, etc, Paul, not overheating), I swear that I'll get around to making a replaceable blade holder to take chunks of hacksaw (or something) blade.

[engineerone]

i agree that it can well be nails and other cr*p in the boards,
but i have also noticed that the blades go a lovely blue colour
which speaks of overheating.

since dremel suggest you can sharpen your lawnmower blades etc with their tool it seems logical that you might be able to do the same with the fein blades.

as for a blade carrier, seems that a rare earth magnet might well be a useful carrying medium for such a thing.

other wise i guess we should all consider looking at the rage saws, or that strange machine that is advertised on some of the shopping channels. seems to be a german product like a circular saw, but with two contra rotating blades. another item that would cut steel. or then again their is that holey blade which another channel suggest you buy for your angle grinder

whilst i understand that the main stream companies wait until these things are proven before they supply, you do wonder whether they work.

anyone bought any of these things, and if so how do they work?

paul