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Post by mrgrimsdale on Oct 5, 2008 21:42:57 GMT
Interesting magazine thread over thereTakes you back - to about a year ago! Various editors and contributors are blagging on about how un-biased and objective their reviews are ;D ;D and telling each other how wonderful they are as writers, editors, reviewers. Grateful readers grovelling at their feet  . Some healthy scepticism on display too, it's not all one way. Interesting reading if you like that sort of stuff and free mag being offered. Against the forum rules I would have thought. But over there was always in hock to the media/tool/service side - which is why they found us to be such a PITA I guess. cheers Jacob |
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Post by andy king on Oct 5, 2008 22:14:21 GMT
Yawn!
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Post by Dave S on Oct 6, 2008 7:42:52 GMT
What annoys me is that it is completely impossible to have any kind of objective debate about magazines over there, because as soon as anyone dares express a dislike for anything about a magazine (BWW in particular) they get rounded on by all the groupies and the contributors take offence, and the actual point gets lost in the furore. Whilst there is a focus on tool reviews, I have a concern over product placement. Eg - you read articles by an author in which a brand of tools are liberally displayed. Obviously that brand is the stuff to have.  Then you go on the forum and find that the author is 'sponsored by said brand'. So in fact, those tools are being used not because they are the best/most appropriate, but because the author is being given/loaned them for free, with the expectation no doubt that they have as high a profile as possible. Interesting the NG claims that BWW was launched in part to improve GWW, when it was his editorship of the latter that caused me to cancel my subscription ... Dave |
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Oct 6, 2008 8:02:58 GMT
Well yes that's why I don't read any of them - except that American one with no ads (sometimes).
Product placement is a form of fraud especially if it's in a mag supposedly written by and for woodworkers.
Someone slipped me a copy of the first BWW. I thought it was appalling.
I don't see why a mag couldn't survive with a clear cordon sanitaire between the content and the advertising. Plenty of newspapers do that quite well.
cheers
Jacob
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Post by jake on Oct 6, 2008 9:19:55 GMT
The trouble with those threads is that there are far too many biased posters with vested interests in the product. Oh, sorry, I forgot, they are entirely neutral about everything, and we can trust them to be entirely objective.
Yes, I know this isn't a fair point at all, but I enjoy the irony nonetheless.
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Post by wizer on Oct 6, 2008 10:49:21 GMT
I guess you've read my comments over there. I like BWW, I tend to read all of the mags TBH, mainly out of poor health and boredom. Normally 10-15% of a magazine is useful/interesting.
I do think certain contributors take things far too personally. There's no need to take offence and defend the whole industry.
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Post by Alf on Oct 6, 2008 11:04:21 GMT
Gawd, Jacob, will you stop hanging out over there and get a life? It's all your fault I've just read that thread and talk about a waste of time. It's deja vu all over again. Nick's doing his usual, as is Andy (Scintillating contribution here, btw. Have you no paint to watch dry?) and the same drivel about tool reviews. Hello? ALL REVIEWS ARE BIASED. There is no such animal as the unbiased tool reviewer; the key is to know what their bias is and read it in that light. At least a review with an opinion suggests the reviewer did actually look at the tool, as opposed to just rehashing the manufacturers advertising blurb.
But the funniest thing of all? Nick Gibbs going on about aiming to make BWW different by providing what you can't get online - something to sit down and read. How many soddding years ago did I start begging for that in GWW? *head/wall*
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Oct 6, 2008 11:18:06 GMT
Gawd, Jacob, will you stop hanging out over there and get a life? It's all your fault I've just read that thread and talk about a waste of time. It's deja vu all over again. snip Oops sorry Alf yes I must stop it and do something more useful with my time ;D Back to the grindstone (freehand) cheers Jacob |
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Post by wizer on Oct 6, 2008 11:32:16 GMT
yes, back to bringing the firewood back to life
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dunbarhamlin
Full Member
Lutherie with Luddite Tendancies
Posts: 244
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Post by dunbarhamlin on Oct 6, 2008 13:25:20 GMT
Product placement is a funny one though. Bit like bringing out the best china for the vicar.
The photographee may choose one tool or another for one reason (their dad's old plane or that for which they forewent a holiday) while the photographer may direct for artistic reasons (more bling, more earthy) and then the editor select from the presented images as a tie in with another article or advertisement.
If it was a pack of fags, then I'd accept the placement as perhaps unseemly. But on items costing a week's, a month's or even a season's grocery bill, I just can't accept that product placement could have such influence that it might cause distress to the naive purchaser.
Some of the tools I use are quite extravagantly priced, while others are not. I can't deny having been afflicted with the magpie reflex at times ;D
All are fit for purpose - if they were not, I would have the right to return them.
If someone is unwittingly influenced to buy junk, they will learn not to do it again, and should, likewise, return it.
If someone buys a tool they cannot sensibly afford, whether or not a cheaper option exists, I'm afraid fault can not reasonably be laid at another's door, regardless of credentials.
Steve
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Post by andy king on Oct 6, 2008 13:50:26 GMT
as is Andy (Scintillating contribution here, btw. Have you no paint to watch dry?) and the same drivel about tool reviews. Hello? ALL REVIEWS ARE BIASED. There is no such animal as the unbiased tool reviewer; the key is to know what their bias is and read it in that light. Which is interesting when read aginst part of this thread Alf. www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10346&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=45where you state: 'I resent the idea that I can apparently write an unbiased review if I've bought the tool myself but not if I get to keep a tool I've had to spend a week or so analysing and trying to make sensible comments about. It's total balls and I'm just not pandering to it.' Andy |
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Oct 6, 2008 14:04:37 GMT
All I get is:  Alf you shouldn't have woken him up - I'd just got him nodding off at the back! cheers Jacob |
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Post by andy king on Oct 6, 2008 14:13:59 GMT
Perhaps you ought to use your alter ego - the one you use to see all the threads you want to on UKW so you port them over here to stir it up. |
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Post by Alf on Oct 6, 2008 18:10:18 GMT
Andy, read what I wrote in that quote, not what you think I wrote. I object to the suggestion that whether I purchase a tool or not will bias me. I do not claim to be unbiased in respect of my own preferences, experiences and so forth.
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Oct 6, 2008 19:38:30 GMT
Perhaps you ought to use your alter ego - the one you use to see all the threads you want to on UKW so you port them over here to stir it up. I would do but its not that easy. He's out of control. It happens about midnight every night - my hands start going all hairy and that's all I remember until I wake up in the morning with vague memories of horrible things. Mrs G says it's that stuff in the bottle but it tastes all right to me cheers Mr Hyde |
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Oct 8, 2008 21:28:53 GMT
Just been over there (sorry Alf I just can't keep away since I found the door in the back of the wardrobe). Nick Glib like a whirling dervish with a fixed smile, desperately giving away free samples of some magazine or other. Is it going to the wall or something? cheers Jacob |
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Post by jfc on Oct 9, 2008 18:32:56 GMT
He has only been going about a year hasnt he ? Handing out free mags to see if people like it seems a nice thing to do to me . Not that i'm a mag fan i just agree with giving away free samples to bring in the punters . Ive made a few radiator covers and cupboard doors for shops to display/use and got a hell of a lot of work from it .
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Post by paulchapman on Oct 9, 2008 19:06:22 GMT
Is it going to the wall or something? No, it's doing quite well I think. Even had a picture of me in the latest issue  ;D Cheers  Paul |
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Post by jfc on Oct 9, 2008 19:20:50 GMT
Ahhhhhh , thats why he is giving them away ;D
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Oct 9, 2008 20:24:57 GMT
Is it going to the wall or something? No, it's doing quite well I think. Even had a picture of me in the latest issue ;D Cheers Paul Well that explains it, say no more Immediate catastrophic decline in sales, desperate attempts to keep the thing afloat ;D Free samples all round, want one or not ;D ;D cheers Jacob |
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Post by paulchapman on Oct 10, 2008 17:20:53 GMT
;D ;D
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Roger
Junior Member
Posts: 59
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Post by Roger on Oct 10, 2008 21:50:58 GMT
This is just why I like it here . . . a comfy old chair by the fire and a few sharp bits of metal whizzing about ( hand sharpened freehand of course ) And after that; another cool pint of stuff and all the good folk are talking again - until the next round ;D |
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. Some healthy scepticism on display too, it's not all one way.
;D
