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Post by sainty on Jan 17, 2008 0:17:58 GMT
So I managed to bag myself a spindle moulder on ebay. Its a Scheppach HF3000, and it seems to spin in the right places, so that's a start. I hasn't got any cutters/blocks with it so I was looking at this. Seems to be a good piece if kit, rebate and euro knives, but is it a jack of all trades? Alternatively there is this which is cheaper, or this which includes 6 profiles, which would get me off to a bit of a start with the tooling collection. So, any advice gratefully received. rgds Sainty |
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Post by dom on Jan 17, 2008 6:19:02 GMT
Go for the Wealden Sainty, it's a known factor, they provide a good service and that particular block also has spurs.
Dom
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Post by jfc on Jan 17, 2008 6:37:26 GMT
Woohoo , congratulations on the spindle  . Your about a year behind me on the spindle moulder journey so i can give you my thoughts and what i have picked up from others but it's just my opinion and not set in stone advice . I'll leave that to the old boys ;D . Gaurding , I think we need to see a pic to make sure you have all the gaurds in place . If not you may need to make a Scrit gaurd . Blocks , The cheaper euro blocks i have been told to stay away from . D and M tools sell Record blocks Or call Whitehill direct and ask for a catalogue on 01582 736881 . There is also Doug who is a member here that may be able to help you with blocks and cutters . IMHO The blocks with a set of six cutters are a waste of time as i have never used the cutters they supplied although i notice you can pick your cutters with that set but the block is a euro block . The rebate block with spurs is a must i think , i have used mine non stop since i bought it . Another thing to remember is the cutters and limiters come in two thicknesses so i have a 40mm ally block , 55mm ally block and a 50mm steel block to take the thicker cutters . Cutters . If i where to start again i would only buy cutters as and when i needed them . You can waste alot of money on profiles you will never use so to start i would buy rebating and chamfer cutters , maybe a few skirting board and architrave cutters but keep to the standard cutters that are going to get used . Power feed . I think you need to learn to use the moulder by hand first but keep your eye out for a power feed . They are well worth it . I may be upgrading mine soon so i will give you a shout if i do ? Thats it for now but i'm sure i will think of more ;D |
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Post by sainty on Jan 17, 2008 8:42:43 GMT
Ok looks like the Wealden rebate/profile block is a winner then. Whats the difference between the steel and ally blocks? I assume that the weight makes the steel blocks harder to run? Probably a better cut then?
JFC, I'm not sure whether you are saying a euro block is a good thing? Both my suggestions are euro blocks, I thought that it was standard? What size do you recommend 40mm or 50mm. I guess that there is a play off between the availabilty of knives for to 40mm block vs the increased capacity of the 50mm block. I assume that the knives that you had machined for the windows/doors is a 50mm block.
I will get some pics later on, it appears to have all the requisite guards but would love to get it confirmed. I seem to have an unhealthy fear, it took me a month to start it up and that's without a block.
Lots more questions too come (and i mean LOTS more) but that will do for now.
Thanks for your help guys.
Cheers
Sainty
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Post by jfc on Jan 17, 2008 10:35:17 GMT
What i have been told is to stay away from the cheaper imported blocks and to stick with a known make . Steel blocks are prefered if you are doing alot of moulding as they are more robust but i'm happy with ally ones for what i do . The block i had the cutters made for is a 55mm block and i know where you are comming from with starting it up . With the 55mm block in mine i scream like a girl and wet myself  |
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Post by stehleuk on Jan 17, 2008 11:10:26 GMT
Sainty I am not sure of the provenance of the ones on e-bay but as a seller of professional quality tools they look a little ....errr...... Its supposed to be a safety head?  ?? The Wealden ones are a very good price and a good universal tool. if you want some "heavier" profiles i would suggest the 50 mm wide ones as they can be used with a much larger range of pre-profiled knives which are freely available. I do like the fact they offer the carbide knives for rebating. I might be able to suggest an alternative supplier of the same cutterhead with a larger diameter of 120 mm (provided thats not too large for your spindle) for a similar price  I cannot see on their site the price for the profiled knives....though again they have a keen price for the 50x12x1.5 and 14x14x2 replacement knives. Edit....looked further on the site and found the knives...again a good price but they are available cheaper Doug |
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Post by woodworker on Jan 17, 2008 11:55:50 GMT
Congrats on the moulder ;D.
I'll go with most of the above comments, just to add a couple more.
You have to match the cutter blocks size & what it's made of (alloy or steel) to the HP of the motor, ie too bigger block & the motor will struggle to spin up. If your not familiar with this it's mainly to do with weight, spinning mass, inertia etc.
Also remember to set the speed of the machine to the speed rating stamped on the block, I'm assuming the Scheppach has various speeds usually set by moving the pulley belt to a different sized pulley.
As to alloy blocks, these imho cut just as well as steel and have the advantage of allowing you to fit bigger blocks on smaller HP machines.
Personally I would go for a dedicated rebate block with TC cutters & spurs or HW as it's now called in Europe, much better cut quality, then buy the euro block to put the HSS profile knives in.
If there is one accessory as a must have it's a power feeder, you'll wonder how you managed without one ( a bit like mobile phones, how did we manage before ;D) Very well some would say ;D ;D.
The reason being they are an excellent safety guard, the cut quality is more consistent and in most cases better. The trick is matching the cutter block size & the spindle speed to the feed speed.
as was said above, forget buying multi cutter kits, I bet you won't use above two out of the box. Best to buy the ones you want or even better still make your own profiles & get a good saw doctor etc to make them for you, or make your own.
Another must have is an adjustable slotting cutter, groover, again you'll be amazed at how much you use one.
And also you'll need a ............................... here we go again on that slippery slope ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by stehleuk on Jan 17, 2008 12:06:10 GMT
Personally I would go for a dedicated rebate block with TC cutters & spurs or HW The HW is German for Hardmetal wendeplatte |
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Post by woodworker on Jan 17, 2008 12:27:34 GMT
Personally I would go for a dedicated rebate block with TC cutters & spurs or HW The HW is German for Hardmetal wendeplatte True but apparently the wonderful EU is wanting to(or already has) adopt this to become Eurowide  . It's a mad mad world . |
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Post by dexteria on Jan 17, 2008 17:39:07 GMT
You could go for a combination rebate/moulder block from Whitehill. This takes profiled moulding cutters/limiters and also has the disposable rebate cutters/spurs which don't have to be removed when using the profile cutters.
If I were goiong for a stand alone rebate head I'd get one with shear cutting which IMHO gives a better cut and I think that it puts less strain on the motor. I suppose its a bit like using a hand plane skewed.
Aly heads seem to perform as well as the steel ones. The ones that I use have a steel liner in the bore.
Like all machine tools but even more so the spindle moulder deserves a lot of respect. Check and check again that everything is set correctly before switching on. I learned this the hard way when a not so tight shaw guard drifted into a moving cutter.
Cheers
Mark
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Post by sainty on Jan 17, 2008 21:05:27 GMT
Ok thanks for all that, whilst I try and digest all that info, here are some photos of my little beauty! 1. The HF3000, not the latest version with the cast top, but we've all got to start somewhere!  2. The controls. Not very exciting, forward and reverse directions. speed indicators  3. The spindle. A bit concerned about the chewed up top. Should it be able to take a allen key to fix the cutter block?  4. Gaurds  5. Gaurds again.  6. Sliding Carriage.  7.Ring thingies, cant remember what they are called and cant be bothered to look it up right now.  8. Guard? I haven't worked this out yet, but i'm sure is saves my fingers somehow.  9. Last but not least, the details - does this give me any information about the power?  There are a couple more photos here, mostly duplicates and different angles but feel free to look. Right I'm going to read all of the above, digest it and then come back with a hundred more questions! Cheers Sainty |
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Post by 9fingers on Jan 17, 2008 21:10:19 GMT
Sainty,
That motor is 2hp single phase. Should run on a 13 amp socket OK. Might need a class C breaker if the standard (class B) keeps objecting.
Bob
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Post by sainty on Jan 17, 2008 21:22:55 GMT
Blimey that was quick Bob! It started ok on the few occasions that I have started it without a block in it. How did you work out that it had a 2hp motor?
Is 2hp really low or just low? Break it to me gently! What sort of blocks can I run safely in this machine?
Cheers
Sainty
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Post by davyowen on Jan 17, 2008 21:27:00 GMT
Click Me! ;D P2 is the output power of the motor in watts. It can draw over twice that during startup and also more from the wall due to losses in the motor itself. P.S I won't go into the details of why and how as I did on the other forum, but I'll just mention that you should never change a fuse/breaker unless you know that the EFLI of that circuit is within certain limits if you want it to do it's job when you need it to the most. |
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Post by sainty on Jan 17, 2008 21:42:20 GMT
Click Me! ;D P2 is the output power of the motor in watts. It can draw over twice that during startup and also more from the wall due to losses in the motor itself. P.S I won't go into the details of why and how as I did on the other forum, but I'll just mention that you should never change a fuse/breaker unless you know that the EFLI of that circuit is within certain limits if you want it to do it's job when you need it to the most. Sneaky! Thanks for that Rgds Sainty |
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Post by dirtydeeds on Jan 17, 2008 22:01:13 GMT
i am also the proud owner of a sheppach spindle moulder and am greatful for the help of one of the exaluted members of the forum i too am usused to large blocks of metal spinning at high revolutions i worked in a joiners shop for one day last year and safety talk on the wadkin spindle moulder started with the guy lifting his shirt no no no................... its not one of THOSE stories  his comment was, "this is what happens if you dont check the cutters for flaws before bolting them to the block massive stomach wounds, the sort where you wouldnt want to take your hands away to dial 999 |
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Post by jfc on Jan 17, 2008 22:29:08 GMT
The spindle looks like its taken up with lots of spacers , if you take the nut off you can remove these to fit the block . Maybe the allen key is so you can change the spindle for a shorter / longer one or maybe it is a thread to take a block with a flush nut so you can take tenons over the top of the block .
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Post by woodworker on Jan 17, 2008 22:29:30 GMT
Blimey that was quick Bob! It started ok on the few occasions that I have started it without a block in it. How did you work out that it had a 2hp motor? Is 2hp really low or just low? Break it to me gently! What sort of blocks can I run safely in this machine? Cheers Sainty Nice photo's, should clean up quite nicely. what size spindle is it ??. You might be able to get a manual for it (such as they are) from NMA agencies as they are the importers of Scheppach. They are in Brighouse, Huddersfield 01484 400488 . 2hp is at the low end of the power stakes. But it should easily spin up a 100mm x 40mm euro block and not a problem for a 120mm wide alloy block. Wider cutters give a better finish as they take a bigger slice. Will it spin a 125mm X 50mm steel block I'm not so sure. |
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Post by sainty on Jan 17, 2008 23:03:42 GMT
JFC - I think i may have confused things. The top of the spindle looks like a badly mashed up allen bolt, there is no thread in there. How do you stop the spindle revolving whilst tightening up the top nut?
Woodworker - 30mm spindle. I've got an outstanding email into NMA, I might give them a call to chase things up a bit. I'm also trying to find out if you can retrofit a cast top on the spindle moulderas well as getting the manual.
Thaks
Sainty
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Post by jfc on Jan 17, 2008 23:14:49 GMT
Stick an allen key in the top and hold that to undo the bolt ;D Maybe thats why its mashed up , looks like someone has tried to use a flat screwdriver to hold the spindle to undo the bolt . Maybe if you raise the spindle up there maybe something else to hold but i dont think there will be  My spindle so you can see sort of what it should look like .....  |
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Post by jake on Jan 17, 2008 23:41:57 GMT
2hp is at the low end of the power stakes. But it should easily spin up a 100mm x 40mm euro block and not a problem for a 120mm wide alloy block. Wider cutters give a better finish as they take a bigger slice. Will it spin a 125mm X 50mm steel block I'm not so sure. As P2 is output, that is probably getting on for a 3hp motor by 'normal' P1 specs. |
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Post by jake on Jan 17, 2008 23:50:52 GMT
Oh,and I wouldn't worry about the lack of cast iron, the old Scheppach steel tables were well made (better than their chinese cast iron) and good enough for most. If you really needed cast iron, you wouldn't have bought a Scheppach in the first place, if that makes sense?
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Post by jfc on Feb 26, 2008 22:31:55 GMT
Have you managed to get the nut off the spindle yet ?
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Post by modernist on Feb 27, 2008 13:11:50 GMT
Just going back the question of blocks I agree with the alloy bock with tungsten knives and spurs for nearly all general work. Second is a variable slotter with shims. (Try OMAS) Third is a Universal Euro block to take profiled knives, preferably with a recessed top collar to allow wide tenons to ride over the top. Never is a ready made kit with a selection of knives. You have just spent £350!! Brian |
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Feb 27, 2008 14:06:48 GMT
The ring thingies look like ring fence bits which probably go with the guard below. For curved work.
For slotting a wobble saw unit is brilliant. Is very accurate and safe - not to be confused with the dangerous practice of tilting a saw blade with shims.
Power feed works brilliantly with a spindle, for speed and consistent accurate results. Realy transforms what is already an excellent machine. For small stuff too.
You can make your own cutters. This saves a fortune.
I remove my top nut by holding the spacers with a pair of footprints - mines not very well designed for inserting the tommy bar and locking the spindle. Come to think - yours might have a hole in the spindle, somewhere underneath, for locking purposes.
cheers
Jacob
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. Your about a year behind me on the spindle moulder journey so i can give you my thoughts and what i have picked up from others but it's just my opinion and not set in stone advice . I'll leave that to the old boys ;D .
??
. It's a mad mad world 
