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Post by corset on Oct 19, 2008 18:01:57 GMT
I am starting to make some internal doors for my house. I am looking to make them in sycamore and have calculated that I need about 29 cu ft of 2" (40-45mm) timber to do this allowing for some wastage. The door will be a basic design with three rails, two stiles and a muntin. I have some timber for the panels already and the rest will be glass panels. I need help on two levels: 1. Does 29 cu ft sounds about right for 9 doors? I seem to be finding the cubic calculations a bit difficult  2. Where is going to be a good supplier? I have fitchett and woolacott in notts but they are expensive. I am happy to order over the phone. I am also not concerned if it is rough sawn if it saves money. Any help gratefully received. Owen |
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Post by 9fingers on Oct 19, 2008 18:50:14 GMT
9 off 2" doors 6'6" x 2'6" made from solid timber needs 24.375 cu ft
Allowing for that fact you have timber for the panels, joint allowance and there will be wastage 29cu ft does not sound unreasonable.
My only concern would be ordering by phone and getting some rough timber as a result.
I'd be tempted to go in person and select the timber and avoid any merchants who won't let you choose.
Bob
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Post by modernist on Oct 19, 2008 18:53:31 GMT
29 does sound a bit on the high side.
If your stiles and muntin are ex 4 x 2 and rails 6 x 2 average (thicker bottom narrower top) you will need
20ft 4 x 2
9 ft 6 x 2 per door
not allowing for wastage
4 x 2 is 18 board ft to the cube
6 x 2 is 12
so you need about 2 cubic ft per door total if you buy sawn stock allowing for some wastage.
9 doors is therefore about 18 ft3
I use F & W myself and I find them on a par with the other larger yards such as Timbmet. I am sure it is possible to buy better but then you have to cost in your time. F & W are happy for you to root through a pallet or two and select your boards which can reduce wastage considerably.
Hope this helps
Brian
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Oct 19, 2008 19:13:38 GMT
Not sure sycamore is suitable for joinery. It's mainly used for furniture (table tops traditionally) and small stuff.
It tends to be wavy grained so this could mean weak tenons in a heavy door. Also a bugger to finish with tear out etc.
You don't order in cubic feet; that's just a measure for pricing purposes. You order according to how they stock it; e.g. say you want 4 1/2" stiles if they have sawn 6"x2" but not 5"x2" then it's 6x2 for stiles, like it or not - unless you can cut down from wider boards such as 9" etc etc. You need to check the lengths they keep to make sure you can get your longest components (18 stiles) from it. If they just have slab sawn wainy edged board there will be a lot of wastage, but it will be cheaper than sawn square.
Talk to them - tell them what you want to do. They'll sort out for you the best option. Don't waste your time selecting boards in the wood-yard - it'll take all day and you will need a fork lift truck! But you could go and just have a look and a chat.
John Boddy is highly recommended but I've never used them. Have a look at their website.
cheers
Jacob
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Post by corset on Oct 19, 2008 19:16:22 GMT
Yes that makes sense. I think I will use all the timber as I have another project to move onto after. I will almost certainly make a c*ck up at some point so the waste will be more than the more competent people out there. I will also try and use a rod ;D to cut the chances down.
My concern with F and W is they seem to be unstocked with sycamore so mail order may be the only option. I have read that John Boddy have good stock but it is hard to tell from websites.
Owen
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Post by modernist on Oct 19, 2008 20:01:42 GMT
Its not that bad at F & W they bring the pallet out for you and you only need a piece of chalk to mark your choice.
I've used Boddys for native beech but I find them a bit daunting to deal with personally.
Brian
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Post by jonnyd on Oct 19, 2008 20:48:01 GMT
Wastage using sycamore could be quite high especially in 2 inch boards especially if you need 2 clean faces without any brown staining which is often a problem with sycamore and maple. I suppose it depends if you want a contemporary or rustic look to the doors. Have you considered using a constructional 1.5mm veneer over a plywood core to make up the door sections
jon
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Post by wizer on Oct 20, 2008 7:17:44 GMT
purely out of interest/just being nosey: What did they quote you on the 29cuft of sycamore?
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Post by corset on Oct 20, 2008 8:01:56 GMT
The design for my door would be too much hassle to veneer, if I am honest I would probably make a mess of it. I am happy with a little rustic as this will go with the design.
While I have nothing against pine (for some reason its vilified by designers) the wife wants a pale door so its maple or sycamore. The door shes likes are about £120.00 each so I figure I have little to loose by giving this a go. I am off to fitchett and woolacott today or tommorrow so I will get a price.
Owen
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Oct 20, 2008 8:52:24 GMT
snip While I have nothing against pine (for some reason its vilified by designers) snip It certainly isn't! It's highly regarded and is an excellent material, along with many other softwoods. Also it has been the preferred timber for internal and external joinery for the last 300 years, because it's the best - cheap, easy to work, light weight, durable etc etc. It's vilified by amateur woodworkers because they know no better  What is a bit unfashionable is stripped and dipped pine. There's too much of it about, with that over-boiled-cabbage, bleached-driftwood look. And it usually means the end of the road for an otherwise OK bit of trad joinery - joints all coming apart, faults and blemishes all on show, etc If you are really going for the sycamore option I'd just get enough for one, and see how it goes. cheers Jacob |
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Post by modernist on Oct 20, 2008 11:01:15 GMT
snip If you are really going for the sycamore option I'd just get enough for one, and see how it goes. cheers Jacob I think that could be called cautious encouragement ;D They will give you the price on the phone but let us know. I would guess at £1500/m3 ie £7.50 per m for 4 x 2 Good luck Brian |
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Post by wizer on Oct 20, 2008 11:16:25 GMT
could you not, in some way, veneer the doors ? Even if making your own veneer which was quite thick 3-5mm ? Might save you a bit?
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Post by jfc on Oct 20, 2008 11:32:20 GMT
What about Fablon .
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Post by dom on Oct 20, 2008 16:05:53 GMT
Not so sure I'd use Sycamore for doors, it's not the best wood for this kind of work.
It's more appropriate to panelling or veneering.
It also tends to tear when sawing.
If you are buying sawn stock(rough) not waney edge, allow at least 30% for wastage and you'll be safe
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Post by nickw on Oct 20, 2008 17:19:33 GMT
John Boddy's are OK to deal with, though it's a good idea (though no compulsory) to 'phone in advance to let them know you're coming and what you're after; or you can just do mail order- which I do most of the time that I deal with them. I've just finished this:  in ripple Sycamore. It was my first piece in this timber, and I had very little problem with tear out - when my tools were properly sharp  . I shall definitely be using Sycamore again. |
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Post by wizer on Oct 20, 2008 18:15:34 GMT
That's lovely Nick, I hadn't ever considered sycamore before, I may have to try it. I have been looking for something different for a upcoming sideboard project. Pear was swimming around in my head, but this might win.
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Post by engineerone on Oct 20, 2008 18:40:18 GMT
very nice tablr nick for your poker evenings i guess i recently used sycamore to make a plane wedge, and found it quite easy in small sizes, not sure about bigger. wouldn't ash be more effective for a door, they use it for morgans ;D paul  |
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Post by corset on Oct 20, 2008 20:32:10 GMT
Fablon, Nice ;D I have been making a cabinet in sycamore which is on the back burner as this house needs to be done as I have two mortgages on the go. I have to say so far I am finding it ok to work with no tearing out. Sharp tools are a must but aren't they always. I did my current house in pine and really liked it but... In my new house I want to try something a bit different. The wife likes the sycamore and I think it will complement the cherry floor.The house is called treetops at sycamore place and surrounded by sycamores so there is a certain symmetry. Plus there is always maple veneered doors to fall back on. Ash may be an option but I don't like the way it goes yellow. Just watching the Amazon program with Bruce Parry about logging gone mad. I like the idea of using a local weed. Owen P.s love that table it look's brilliant. I will try to post pictures when I get going to give you something to chuckle at as I make a collection of schoolboy errors. |
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. I shall definitely be using Sycamore again.