Heavy duty workshop units

[modernist]

I have made a couple of heavy duty machine stands for the workshop. One is for a Mill drill which is too heavy to lift and the other for 3 grinders of which one is a cutter grinder weighing 50 kg alone.




Legs 3 x3 redwood with 4 x 1 1/2 rails with offset tenons and glued-in 18mm MDF panels for strength and rigidity( used up some oddments). Sizes are 825W x 600D and 825W x 750D and 850 high. The tops will be lipped 25mm ply glued and screwed to the rails. Basically Brick Sh*thouse construction for the weight and vibration.

Question is what is the best drawer construction. they will be 200 high and 675 and 450 wide. I want to store cutters etc ie heavy stuff and thought of using roller runners with planted fronts. Would I be OK with biscuited MDF or ply, or should I use dovetailed redwood for the sides? Bottoms will need a centre muntin for the weight and maybe internal sliding trays. I propose some glued and screwed vertical battens to attach the runners level with the inside face of the legs. (A bit odd I know but I didn't want wide panel backsets on the outside).

What does the team think?

Brian

[engineerone]

i reckon, brian that the simplest and most effective thing would be to use 18mm mdf for the bottom of the drawers, and instead of a muntin, put a central divider of the same thickness.

this could be biscuited or dowelled into the drawer bottom,
and would also allow you to sort out the storage more easily.
so the dividers do not need to be actually in the centre.

hth
paul

[nickw]

I'd go with ply for the drawers. If you make them inNK style with 12mm ply bottoms, with bottom mounted runners (the type where the drawer half of the runner wraps round the underside of the drawer) you should have plenty of strength. Forget the muntin.

[mrgrimsdale]

200 high and 675 and 450 wide. I want to store cutters etc ie heavy stuff

That's a big drawer for heavy stuff. Weigh a lot if full. What about smaller drawers? I've got some with stone masonry stuff, cold chisels etc but drawer only 10" wide about 10" high and 20" long. 12m blockboard sides and 6mm ply bottoms OK at this width - and you can lift a full drawer. Drawer slips essential for load bearing - depending on details.
MDF out whatever the design, it deforms slowly under any load and weighs a ton itself.

cheers
Jacob

[modernist]

I think all the above make valid points - thanks. I have never come accross NK drawers before and they appear to have some distinct advantages including an integral form of slip.

Fortunately the narrower stand is the one for the heaviest items but I take your point Jacob. Expanding Pauls's point about a centre divider I could also use that to support a sliding tray in the centre.

I have some two roller drawer slides in stock but I may get some heavier 50kg items from Hafele or cheaper for this job.

I'll post some WIP pics as I go

cheers

Brian

[jfc]

you can buy MDF Lite aswell ;D

[engineerone]

gawd jacob stop promoting rubbish,

mdf if properly designed into a project DOES not deform over time. i have many bookshelves built more than 20 years ago which are still level and square, it is the design and allow for the inherent properties that make it very attractive.

paul

[modernist]

Nov 15, 2008 13:26:58 GMT nickw said:

I'd go with ply for the drawers. If you make them inNK style with 12mm ply bottoms, with bottom mounted runners (the type where the drawer half of the runner wraps round the underside of the drawer) you should have plenty of strength. Forget the muntin.

I've read the article now and very interesting it is.

I will use that on some solid work but I doubt if there is any advantage when using drawer slides.

One problem is that it leaves a thin, vulnerable edge on the drawer front. It might even catch your finger if your unlucky.

I've got loads of veneered mdf offcuts and narrow sheets so I think I will try to come up with a design that respects the properties of that material and still gives enough strength.

cheers

Brian

[modernist]

Nov 15, 2008 17:42:03 GMT jfc said:

you can buy MDF Lite aswell ;D

I've just noticed your "seasonal" avatar. ;D ;D ;D

That would get you banned on the _{other side}

Brian

[engineerone]

brian, you can devise a drawer using nk, without pushing the drawer bottom coming to the front you could inset it into the front itself, like a normal drawer.

paul

[modernist]

Nov 16, 2008 0:47:34 GMT engineerone said:

brian, you can devise a drawer using nk, without pushing the drawer bottom coming to the front you could inset it into the front itself, like a normal drawer.

paul

Not sure what you mean Paul?

[mrgrimsdale]

Just trying a bit of lateral thinking:
A drawer is basically a box sitting on supports in a carcase.
For holding particular heavy items I wonder if it would make more sense to design the boxes first. Perhaps making them modular so they'd fit together side by side on a shelf of particular width.
Then design the carcase - a shelf unit, or a drawer unit with runners.
If the boxes are very heavy then perhaps runners are not appropriate - too much leverage when the box is more than half out. Instead just have lift-off boxes on a shelf - with handles at both ends?

cheers
Jacob

[woodchucker]

Jacob, youm right.

Drawers make sense, above the blanket-chest type of storage.
Drawers mean you don't have to rummage through a box of assorted clothing, looking for something in particular.

You can also take drawers out of the chest when you need to move the carcass around. So it makes sense not to make them too deep or you defeat the object.

Plus, if you got a tidy mind, different drawers can be strictly for certain items.

Funny how woodwork designs seem so random yet are completely logical eh?

And by the way, MDF is ok for putting underfoot in the shop and it's good at embalming yer lungs. Not much else use for it that I can think of.

Jack

[nickw]

I was thinking that in this case the bottom would not project out past the sides. You end up with a base with the sides sitting on it. Add a planted front to cover the front edge of the base as well as the runners on the sides.

[engineerone]

basically brian i agree with nick

you have a base, which is as wide as you want it to be, ie wide enough to slide in the side supports. but in length it is only as long as the distance behind the front to the rear of the drawer.

from memory, most "proper" drawers have a bottom which only goes this far, the rear is generally less deep and sits on the drawer bottom, all you are doing with nk is adding the width.

paul

[modernist]

Crystalisation is slowly happening . I also made a new base for my metalwork bench in a similar design which has a 1200 wide drawer space in the front.

Taking Jacob's point I will put more, smaller drawers under the bench, say 400 x 150 high x 450 deep for the heavy stuff and larger drawers in the earlier units for the lighter stuff.

Re MDF it seems to be doing a fine, long term, job as glued in panels in all the units but I agree it's not for cutting dovetails. I've got loads of offcuts I want to use for planted on drawer fronts, cherry too, very posh.

For the drawers if I use bottom fix slides the sides can be the same veneered MDF (maybe the veneer gives it some more integrity - seriously) as they will be lightly loaded. I would biscuit that together.I also have some old school shelves in laminboard so I could use that. If I use the NK method of say 20mm slips, but flush to the sides, and rebate the bottom a bit, I can make a rebate well up the sides for the bottom. Either way with no solid wood the whole lot can be glued up and should be very strong.

cheers

Brian

[woodchucker]

Well Modernist,

The cabinets you are making seem to be coming along fine and I reckon they will do the job for years to come.

As for MDF for panels, I suppose I could always wear a mask when I cut the stuff. I just generally don't like the stink of it, nor the dust.

I always get the sawmill to cut my sheet materials into sizes I need. Saves me a job, they have the dust and it's a free service!

So I did buy some 10mm thick MDF squares. I glued carpet underlay to them and made some floor tiles. Underlay side down, they stay put and make for a good feeling underfoot on the concrete in my garage! I would still prefer 6mm ply, where you used veneered MDF. But that's just me!

Jack

[modernist]

Finally made a bit more progress over the hols and further thoughts on the HD drawer design.

On the third batch I carried the bottom right under the inner front to which it was pinned and glued and then tongued in the normal way into the false front. If necessary it can also be screwed up into the bottom edge of the inner front for additional strength. The tongue also provides a register for the false front. This also has the advantage that it avoids the gap which occurs on under slung bottoms at either side.





the fronts have a biscuit near the lower edge and a crew at the top. The backs are screwed top and bottom (all with glue of course)
Next batch ready for finishing off



Finshed inner drawer with glue block



I think you have to adapt the construction to suit the material so I make no excuses for the glue block

Carcass fitted out with vertical battens for the fulll extension drawer slides.



Finished unit for Mill Drill waiting for handle screws. I painted the panels grey to hide the mix of MDF and veneer, in a range of grain directions, as the whole thing used up offcuts.





and the larger unit for a grinding station



Next job to put 2 sets of drawers in the matching metalwork bench

cheers

Brian

[jaco]

Nice job, and some very good ideas applied.

[trousers]

They look good Brian. Can I ask which drawer runners you have used?

[modernist]

Dec 31, 2008 9:07:14 GMT trousers said:

They look good Brian. Can I ask which drawer runners you have used?

Hafele 50Kg full extension. Theoretically if I stand the two chests next to each other I can stand with one foot in each, fully extended drawer .

Maybe try it for a party trick tonight ;D

Brian

[trousers]

You weigh 100kg?
Must have been a good Christmas ;D

[modernist]

Not far off regretfully

Made a bit more progress today and got the eight drawers fitted to the metalwork bench. Should finish it tomorrow.





Brian