Ring fence work

[jfc]

Is the ring fence supposed to be used alonside a lead on pin or is the ring fence enough ?
Also would a bearing take the place of a ring fence ?

[mrgrimsdale]

Dec 4, 2008 14:59:39 GMT jfc said:

Is the ring fence supposed to be used alonside a lead on pin or is the ring fence enough ?

Ring fence enough. What is a lead on pin?

Also would a bearing take the place of a ring fence ?

Similar but not the same.
Ring fence its not concentric with the cutter like a bearing. It's got a bigger radius than concentric - so the further round the fence you go (from the middle or nearest point) the further from the cutter. This means you can slip your workpiece in from the feed side, and as it gets closer it cuts deeper. So you mark the closest point to the cutter on the fence or the table and work up to it, otherwise you could be cutting further out (shallower) without realising it.

[jake]

I'm trying to imagine Jason setting up his power feed for use with the ring fence.

No hiding under the bench for this one...

[jrm]

Hi Jacob,

The ring fence guard/hood for my spindle has a curved bit which can optionally be attached to provide a lead in but I don't think this is necessary. A ring fence should be set eccentrically to the cutter. Having identitified the point at which the template and cutter should coincide, you need to ensure that the cutter only projects enough at this point only. This means that the template and work can be 'rolled' in gently from the side.

I prefer the bearings myself. Much more like painting by numbers provided, of course you have a bearing matched to the diameter of the cutter. I suppose that's where the ring fence comes in because it's so much more versatile - and cheaper.

I use a 140mm shear-cut rebate block with a matching bearing for most template work and this gives a superb finish needing very little cleaning up.

John

[jrm]

Sorry Jacob, half asleep and addressing jfc's query to yourself when you already seem to have made the same point!

John

[jonnyd]

I have these www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=20274&name=omas&user_search=1&sfile=1&jump=0

I run a 125mm one with a 125mm shear rebate block and get good results. I put a lead in on the template to avoid snatching at the start ot the cut.

jon

[jfc]

Is that a bearing guide you put above the block to follow a template ?

[jonnyd]

Yup the bearing can either go above or below the block. I tend to run the bearing below the block so that i can make a bigger template and is more stable. You just have to rig up a suitable guard for the exposed block or put some guarding on the template.

[stevep]

So could you use one of these followers to make, say, a curved top rail and the matching panel for a kitchen door?

[jonnyd]

It would involve making a couple of templates so is a bit time consuming for a one off item but for a batch would work fine. You would just have to match up the tooling with the right size bearing.

[jfc]

So as i thought the bearing will take the place of the ring fence and you wont have to worry about the point of cutting as the bearing will cut the same no matter what point you use . But you will need a lead on pin or point to stop it snatching and loss of fingers I have no idea what i am talking about here so please dont quote me but if the template has a curve ( lead on point ) then if the block snatches wouldnt that throw you away from the block rather than pulling your hand into the block .

[mrgrimsdale]

Dec 4, 2008 23:10:36 GMT jfc said:

So as i thought the bearing will take the place of the ring fence and you wont have to worry about the point of cutting as the bearing will cut the same no matter what point you use . But you will need a lead on pin or point to stop it snatching and loss of fingers I have no idea what i am talking about here so please dont quote me but if the template has a curve ( lead on point ) then if the block snatches wouldnt that throw you away from the block rather than pulling your hand into the block .

With a ring fence you can sneak up on the cut - slip it in from the feed side, no snatching. With a bearing it's all or nothing so you need a lead-in pin or something.
Like a lot of spindle work - in the end it's easier than you'd think and you find yourself doing perfect stuff, fast, quiet, dust free etc etc

[jrm]

As jonnyd says, with a bearing you don't need a lead pin if you make the template longer so that it engages with the bearing firmly before the workpiece reaches the cutter. Nice and smooth, no suprises.

John

[lynx]

Dec 4, 2008 23:19:16 GMT mrgrimsdale said:

Dec 4, 2008 23:10:36 GMT jfc said:

you find yourself doing perfect stuff, fast, quiet, dust free etc etc

I chickened out. I should have used a bearing set-up to apply the 60x18mm rebate into these curved heads but went the router route.

Nice result but very dusty workshop.

Will experiment on a trail piece before a live job.

[mooretoolsplease]

What spurred this question was that I called up Jason to see if he had any experience of ring fence work, as I had a pair of 6 sided bay cills to manufacture. They are segmented on the inside, and curved on plan on the exterior. Rather than use a router and have to bandsaw very close to the line, I thought I would use the ring fence on my spindle. Having never used a ring fence before, and only briefly reading about it in the spindle mouldr hand book left me with a few questions.
With Jasons encouragement and a chat about the H&S of it, I set it all up and went for it.
Here are a few photos of the setup I used.

I thought it best to leave the bearing guide I had purchased fitted aswell as the ring fence, just for peace of mind.
One thing that I wasnt sure about was the thin ali plate on the right of the picture, its adjustable so I assumed this was the lead in pin.

Here is a better view of said part.
After looking at it from this view, I can see that the radius is bigger to the right of the ring fence, which is effectively the lead in.

Here is the work piece and template. I left the template over length in both directions to assist with the lead in.
Initially I bandsawed off the excess at the corners, but after 2 or 3 I tried it as shown and there was no issues with it.

This is how I started to lead the work in, the 2 points of contact being the ali plate, and the bearing. It was then very easy to smoothly enter the workpiece without any snatching or movement.

Here is a close up of a portion that was cut against the grain.
There wasnt so much as a hint of tear out.

All in all the job went very smoothly and every piece of template work I will nwo be using the spindle. It is so much smoother than a router and template bit, and the finish required very little sanding before paint.
Sadly, I wont see these cills fitted as they are destined for Wales.

Thanks

Matt

[jfc]

Doesnt look to bad there but i still think your a nuter for doing it ;D