Door hanging

[dandrew]

I'm looking for a solution to a door hanging problem. Having spent the best part of a year making a new front door I've finally got to the stage of hanging it. It fits the frame and has about 2-3mm allowance all around for the joint. As I'm using the existing hinges in the frame I cut mortices in the hinging stile. The problem is that the bottom rail hits the stop before the top rail and leaves about a 10mm gap between the top rail and the stop on the fame.

The door itself is not in wind, so I'm assuming its the frame that is not square. Is it a simple matter of moving the bottom hinge out and the top hinge in half the distance of the gap - 5 mm each. I'm thinking that the door itself will not be truly plumb if I do that, but as I'm not going to remake the frame I'll have to get the door to fit it.

Suggestions welcome.

Cheers,
Dave

[mrgrimsdale]

Normal door hanging sort of prob by the sound of it. Needs top hinge in, bottom hinge out.
Having checked first that it fits the opening wedged in without hinges , I always hang a door on one short screw (3/4") below and 2 above (to take the weight) to see how it hangs. If it's near, you can adjust the hinges by brad-awling a hole in the next hinge hole - but tight up against the edge of the hinge in the direction you want it to move. Then put a screw in but not tight. loosen the first screws, support the door on a wedge and tighten the new screw. The tapered edge will push the hinge in the direction chosen, though you might need to remove a bit more hinge pocket if it's tight.
If that sort of fine adjustment isn't enough you just have to try again. Measure the error, move screw holes accordingly, don't use too many screws at first, and so on.
Only when it's spot on do you put in the whole set of screws - and even then you might have to ease the door off by putting packing under a hinge, or both.

cheers
Jacob

[paulchapman]

If after all the faffing about, putting the door on and taking it off again umpteen times, you find that any of the screw holes have become enlarged and the screws are not holding very well, I've found that drilling out the screw hole and gluing in an old-fashioned fibre Rawl Plug usually does the trick. They are available in various sizes. Just tap it in and chisel off any excess.

Cheers

Paul

[Keith]

One problem with fitting the hinges out of vertical alignment is that the door can forever swing open or shut on you. It may be that moving the hinges will correct an out of true frame but if the door currently swings evenly personally I would look to adjust the door stop.

I'd scribe a line down the door stop parallel with the door then either remove the excess timber or add a small fillet depending on how the door fits with the inside face of the frame.

You will then need to adjust the lock keep.

Just my 2p

Keith

[gazza]

woodsmith said:

One problem with fitting the hinges out of vertical alignment is that the door can forever swing open or shut on you. It may be that moving the hinges will correct an out of true frame but if the door currently swings evenly personally I would look to adjust the door stop.

I'd scribe a line down the door stop parallel with the door then either remove the excess timber or add a small fillet depending on how the door fits with the inside face of the frame.

You will then need to adjust the lock keep.

Just my 2p

Keith

Spot on Keith

Dave its all about what the door swings like, there is nothing as bad as a door that constantly swings open or closes over when you want it to stay open !!
As for adjusting the hinges top and bottom, I personally would only do it as a last resort, the door you have spent a year making will be spoiled if it doesnt sit even with the frame (hinge side).
Adjust the stop by triming or use a tapered fillet as Keith says, it will look so much better.
HTH,
Cheers,
Gazza.

[mrgrimsdale]

Ooh dunno .. I've hung a few doors over the years and don't think I've ever had to trim the stops - or come to think I don't recall ever seeing an added fillet or a trimmed stop.
It's all about getting the hinges right - dead reckoning to start with, followed by trial and error .
If it's a bit out on the lock side you tell your client that a bit of spring in the door stops it rattling. If it's really bad then sometimes it's easiest to re-align the frame itself with a few belts with a lump hammer and a new fixing to keep it in it's new position.

cheers
jacob
PS swinging open/shut is no prob - if it tends to swing open then you shut it (if you want), if it tends to swing shut it won't if you open it beyond 90 deg. If all else fails you sell them a nicely made little wedge ;D.

[jake]

mrgrimsdale said:

Ooh dunno .. I've hung a few doors over the years and don't think I've ever had to trim the stops - or come to think I don't recall ever seeing an added fillet or a trimmed stop.
It's all about getting the hinges right - dead reckoning to start with, followed by trial and error .
If it's a bit out on the lock side you tell your client that a bit of spring in the door stops it rattling. If it's really bad then sometimes it's easiest to re-align the frame itself with a few belts with a lump hammer and a new fixing to keep it in it's new position.

cheers
jacob
PS swinging open/shut is no prob - if it tends to swing open then you shut it (if you want), if it tends to swing shut it won't if you open it beyond 90 deg. If all else fails you sell them a nicely made little wedge ;D.

I'm glad that I DIY this stuff.

[craigmarshall]

Ideally you put a frame in that's plumb and square, but I suppose that goes without saying and isn't really an option.

Craig

[gazza]

mrgrimsdale said:

If it's a bit out on the lock side you tell your client that a bit of spring in the door stops it rattling. If it's really bad then sometimes it's easiest to re-align the frame itself with a few belts with a lump hammer and a new fixing to keep it in it's new position.

cheers
jacob
PS swinging open/shut is no prob - if it tends to swing open then you shut it (if you want), if it tends to swing shut it won't if you open it beyond 90 deg. If all else fails you sell them a nicely made little wedge ;D.

;D ;D ;D RATFLMAO !!! Classic, ;D ;D ;D
Perhaps Mr Grimsdale fitted the original door ;D ;D ;D
Only joking Jacob
Dave you could always remove the stops and refit them to suit the door.
Cheers,
Gazza.

[mrgrimsdale]

craigmarshall said:

Ideally you put a frame in that's plumb and square, but I suppose that goes without saying and isn't really an option.

Craig

Well yes, but there's many a slip and things often don't work out how you'd like them to, esp if fitting new door to old frame.
There's a whole collection of wheezes and wangles for getting things to look right before you give up and start cutting out stops or planting fillets - desperate methods of last resort and rarely needed.
You always start by fitting the door to the opening, before cutting any hinge pockets, by offering it up to the frame and wedging it up tight. Then you can see how it fits and plane the edges or adjust the frame if necessary. Then you cut the hinge pockets. That's the last bit of woodwork you do - the rest is all down to the fine art of door hanging
This is a door I did last year
Fits perfectly TISIMS ;D

cheers
Jacob
PS if it fits with good clearances on the dry run, then doesn't fit after hanging it on hinges, then it's a dead cert that you need to adjust the hinges again

[dandrew]

Many thanks for all your suggestions.

I think I'll probably go with Jacob's fix of moving the hinges. Altering the stop could have been a possibility, but adding a fillet to make up the space between door and stop would have mean't that the Yale latch didn't fit the keep any more. So I would have to pack it out , and then the door alarm sensor would need to be re-positioned.... what a faff.

Thanks Paul for the idea about fibre rawl plugs to fill an over large screw hole. Where do you get them from these days ?

Cheers,

Dave

[paulchapman]

dandrew said:

Thanks Paul for the idea about fibre rawl plugs to fill an over large screw hole. Where do you get them from these days ?

Most hardware stores sell them, except that there don't seem to be many of the old hardware stores about these days Try large tool shops like Buck and Ryan. Most of the DIY sheds only sell the plastic ones these days.

When you find them, buy plenty - they are very useful, particularly on knock-down furniture that has been taken apart a few times and the screw holes are knackered

Another trick I find useful on stuff like chipboard or MDF where the screw holes are really bad is to glue in a piece of, say, 10mm dowel then, when that is dry, drill the dowel and glue a fibre Rawl Plug into that.

Cheers

Paul

PS If you Google "fibre rawl plugs" there are plenty of on-line suppliers.

[thatsnotafestool]

Matchsticks work as well.