Solid wood panel construction

[Sgian Dubh]

Some visitors to the forum may find my discussion on solid wood panel construction useful or helpful in their work. Here is a link to it, www.richardjonesfurniture.com/Articles/panel-glue-ups/panel-glue-ups.html

What you will find is an edited and truncated version of a larger illustrated text I have created that is intended for print publication at some point in the future. Slainte.

[9fingers]

Thanks for this Richard. A very interesting article that has opened my eyes considerably to issues I did not necessarily know about before. However, as an amateur without experience to draw upon I'm left wondering what the ideal glue for a panel is. Water based, pva, epoxy and urea based all seem to have drawbacks but what is left I wonder.

regards

Bob

[engineerone]

thanks for sharing richard,
obviously like others who are untrained it asks as many questions as it answers but does give us a starting place
and better knowledge to ask the right questions

paul

[mrgrimsdale]

3 cheers for more real wood panels, and boo to MDF!

Have we got 2 threads going here?

[Sgian Dubh]

Dec 26, 2008 16:34:54 GMT mrgrimsdale said:

Have we got 2 threads going here?

Yes, because handtool only woodworkers sometimes visit just the handtool side of woodworking forums; they don't visit those parts of woodworking forums that discuss whacking wood with machines.

However, solid wood panel construction is a common topic so I double posted the link to ensure a wider potential readership. Slainte.

[mailee]

Well after reading that I think I will concentrate on MDF and give up using real wood for panels! ;D Some good info there and a lot I didn't know. Thanks for the info.

[Stree]

Thanks Richard, interesting stuff!

Much as I learned at Jacob Kramer, and a little more as well.
Just put together a white oak table top bearing all the points you made in mind, and its turned out well.

[Sgian Dubh]

Dec 26, 2008 14:59:35 GMT engineerone said:

.. like others who are untrained it asks as many questions as it answers ... better knowledge to ask the right questions. paul

Questions?

Such as?

Someone might have an answer, but it is unlikely to be me as I don't know my erse from my elbow on that subject, ha, ha. Slainte.

[jrm]

Thanks Richard, very interesting as is the rest of your site.

I received an email just before Christmas from a client for whom I made a coffe table some time ago. Textbook top construction as per your article, sprung joints to mitigate faster shrinkage at the ends, etc.

As if to prove your point, they had parked the table 18 inches from a roaring gas fire with the end grain facing the heat. Naturally, this rapidly sucked all the moisture from the end with the centre hopelessly unable to keep up, opening up one of the joints at the end nearest the fire. Spoiled my day.

I'll end up repairing or replacing the top, possibly advising on veneered construction. Would any craftsman guarantee their work in such a harsh environment? I'll learn to be more specific regarding care and use in future.

John

[Sgian Dubh]

Dec 27, 2008 20:27:50 GMT jrm said:

... they had parked the table 18 inches from a roaring gas fire with the end grain facing the heat... opening up one of the joints at the end nearest the fire. Spoiled my day.

I'll end up repairing or replacing the top, possibly advising on veneered construction. Would any craftsman guarantee their work in such a harsh environment? I'll learn to be more specific regarding care and use in future. John

I wouldn't guarantee a piece of furniture abused in such a way. Good idea to put a disclaimer or guidance for care note in your delivery ticket or bill. It might give you a get out for future abusive treatment of your creations.

On the other hand I understand your willingness to fix the problem caused by the client's mistreatment, and I'm guessing probably at no charge to the customer. It's a tough one, but sometimes we have to eat our hat to mainain good client relationships and potential future work. Slainte.

[jrm]

I wasn't planning on charging for the work even though they went out of their way to say they knew it wasn't my fault. As long as they understand that, I think it's worth a bit of extra work just to show they are getting a premium service. Shame I didn't charge a more premium price. Good idea about the 'guidance for care' instructions and I've resolved to do just that in future.

Interesting comments in 'the dark place' about creep, etc. I have found this most noticeable in thicker pieces like worktops where abutting pieces have expanded at different rates leaving a slight step with PVA type glue. Maybe those spindle moulded finger joints would help. Biscuits/splines don't since they are too far from the surface. I've reverted to Cascamite. On the subject of biscuits, I'm trying those fibre ones from Lamello at the moment which they claim give 'controlled' swelling. They certainly seem to be more consistent but I can't comment yet on whether they reduce the 'row of pimples' effect though that is their stated intention. I'll let you know

John

[Sgian Dubh]

Dec 26, 2008 13:29:13 GMT 9fingers said:

... I'm left wondering what the ideal glue for a panel is. Water based, pva, epoxy and urea based all seem to have drawbacks but what is left I wonder.
Bob

I left your query for a few days to see if anybody else picked up on it. Nobody has so I guess I'll give you an answer.

Picking the right glue to use for panel glue-ups is dependent upon a set of circumstances. You have to assess the working conditions, the wood being used and the stress and/or conditions the panel will end up in.

For instance, if you are working with an oily wood and the panel will end up in fairly regular contact with water you will want to use a glue that is very water resistant and grips well to an oily wood. Polyurethane is a good candidate, and PVA is not.

For general purpose furniture work PVA is often a good choice. It requires no preparation, grabs quickly and sets fast. But if your cabinets or panels are going into an environment where there will be large and sustained swings between high RH and low RH numbers, then this could cause the row-of-pimples form of creep to show itself if you use PVA. Perhaps you'd be better selecting a non-creeper such as a urea formaldehyde type. Slainte.