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Post by matthew on Dec 31, 2008 14:29:14 GMT
Just going to embark on a big remodelling project which will involve making a lot of built-in storage. It's been suggested (well, rather demanded) that some bookshelves need to be modern, slab-like affairs, kind of like this: www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/40118620Ie with thick shelves, I guess 50mm or more. The eg Ikea versions of these are made of a blg slab of chipboard, either solid or round the edges with corrugated cardboard (no, really) in the void. I don't really want to use 50mm thick stock (!), but dont want to make them out of cardboard either  - they will be taking a lot of weight, perhaps 1m spans, full of magazines and books. The final finish will be painted, so it needs to be as seamless as possible. I can think of various ways of achieving this, none of them particularly neat - I usually make solid wood stuff and I'm not really used to this kind of work yet. Does anyone have any tips as to how best to construct this sort of thing? As ever, any insight much appreciated! |
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Post by jfc on Dec 31, 2008 17:04:58 GMT
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Post by trousers on Dec 31, 2008 17:34:33 GMT
Jason. Just curious but is that cutter mounted in a router table or a spindle moulder?
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Post by jasonb on Dec 31, 2008 17:42:50 GMT
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Post by jfc on Dec 31, 2008 17:48:54 GMT
The one i used is mounted in a router table . You can see it in the third pic . You can also buy them for the spindle .
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Post by engineerone on Dec 31, 2008 17:51:55 GMT
you are basically talking about a torsion box type shelf. however, don't knock the cardboard inner, it is really strong in compression if you use the right sort. years ago there was a product called mallite, and it was used in racing cars. the maclaren m4/1 in particular. normal torsion boxes use 40mmx 12 mm on edge, which is just pinned at the intersections, then thin mdf or ply can be applied on top. you can then edge the front and sides with the wood pattern you want. paul  |
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Post by modernist on Dec 31, 2008 20:55:05 GMT
At £63 you could buy the finished bookshelf for the price of a set of cutters, never mind the wood.
Far be it from me to put people off making but it depends how many you need.
Brian
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Post by matthew on Jan 2, 2009 8:04:43 GMT
Many thanks for the replies, and thanks jfc and jason for the pics. Lots of good ideas!
The mitre lock cutter sounds like a good idea - I've got a router and table that should be able to handle it. Your large TV cabinet looks great! What thickness of MDF did you start with? And eg the wider shelf above the TV, does that have anything inside to stiffen it and/or do you think it could be a longer span and take being full of books?
modernist, I'm all in favour of buying when it's easier - but this will need to be a long custom-made affair (maybe 7m!) Also, the, er, client (ie my wife) demands a more seamless finish - the shelves will be fixed and need to look as if built in to the walls.
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Post by jfc on Jan 2, 2009 10:39:00 GMT
Its all 18mm MDF , you can just see in the first pic that i have used spacers inside the shelves to give support . The side shelves are around 640mm and are full of books with no sign of sagging . The middle shelf is just over 1M but only holds a central speaker for the surround sound . I suppose if you mitre locked the shelf all the way around and added spacers it would be the strongest but your guess is as good as mine with the sagging . I would say going on what i have that it would be ok at 1M but maybe do a test shelf first and leave something really heavy on it for a week or two .
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Post by engineerone on Jan 2, 2009 11:45:04 GMT
personally i think anything over 600 mill will begin to sag if one solid board, eventually. mdf that is however adding inner supports will certainly make it possible to ensure a 1 metre span will stay flat. paul |
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Jan 2, 2009 12:02:48 GMT
MDF as shelving is a challenge too far! Why bother when there are plenty of better alternatives? Start the new year being rude about mdf ;D ;D
Egg box doors are cheap - you can cut them to size and build up the edges with a spar tucked in for added stiffness, and a covering lath; softwood if painted or hardwood if self finished. Can be very neat with nearly invisible joint.
Or 1/4" ply for a box construction, edge details as above, spars spanning the length inside for stiffness. Or 1/4" for the top surface and 1/8" for the bottom (in tension); nice and light.
Happy new year all!
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Post by pauldavidthomas on Jan 2, 2009 20:50:43 GMT
Well, the egger stuff is great. This sheet I've got below is 60mm thick (8mm mdf melamine both sides then wafer in the middle). You can stand on it, jump on it - it won't break...  £80 and it's BIG !!! makes £65 sound expensive |
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Post by modernist on Jan 2, 2009 21:56:14 GMT
Well, the egger stuff is great. This sheet I've got below is 60mm thick (8mm mdf melamine both sides then wafer in the middle). You can stand on it, jump on it - it won't break... How will you treat the edges? Brian |
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Post by colincott on Jan 2, 2009 22:36:59 GMT
Hi Matthew I have got a Lock Mitre bit from Rutlands that is a bit cheaper  I got it after looking at JFC's unit  Have to say I have not used it yet |
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Post by promhandicam on Jan 3, 2009 11:05:55 GMT
Hi Matthew. If you go for the Mitre lock cutter have a look at Wealden. The rutlands ones are cheaper but not sure what the max thickness material they will do. here is a link to the wealden page. Steve |
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Post by jfc on Jan 3, 2009 11:38:43 GMT
So first you dismiss MDF purely on the fact that you dont like it but have no real reason why and then you give a totally outrageously crap alternative by saying why not cut up some crap doors  ;D |
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Post by engineerone on Jan 3, 2009 12:01:08 GMT
jason since when did you think that jacob's suggestions and preferences make any sense  it is certain that people like hepplewhaite and similar makers would have used mdf where it available at the time, because it would have saved them money in those areas which are not seen, which is where it would have been used. certainly as i have said before i can see no logic in building in fittings in any other product but mdf since most of it is hidden from view. in addition, the real value of mdf is that it takes paint so well, so you can use it to create a proper effect in a modern design setting. paul |
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Jan 3, 2009 12:25:59 GMT
So first you dismiss MDF purely on the fact that you dont like it but have no real reason why and then you give a totally outrageously crap alternative by saying why not cut up some crap doors ;D Not as crap as you'd think. Just the same as the egger stuff. I found it out by chance when I had some crap egg box doors, and needed some shelves. Highly effective; stiff, strong, light weight. You can make them with a softwood insert at the edges, paint and finish, then add a hardwood covering strip for a neat edge effect, or paint all over. Choice of different skins available from cheap hardboard to faced plywood. Main advantages over mdf: lighter, cheaper, stiffer, more adaptable in terms of finish, edge detail etc . |
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Post by jfc on Jan 3, 2009 14:23:33 GMT
How is it more adaptable to edging  You always see a plant on edge no matter how good you are . IMHO it always looks cheap , light and flimsy . |
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- they will be taking a lot of weight, perhaps 1m spans, full of magazines and books. The final finish will be painted, so it needs to be as seamless as possible. 
;D
You always see a plant on edge no matter how good you are . IMHO it always looks cheap , light and flimsy .