interesting tip

[engineerone]

i presented this tip as an idea to make people look laterally,
in my somewhat limited experience, there is always a place that is somewhat hidden which can be checked out.
the tip came from a painter and decorator in the san fransisco area of america, where almost all of the trim is painted, so to me it had merit.

however i then thought that i wonder how many would consider that by polishing the back of their chisels also allows them to ensure that the chisel is vertical and square to the work, because you can see it in this mirror

in the same way i was shown a tip that you could more easily
cross cut by hand by aligning the saw with the wood. if the saw is across the wood at 90 degrees then you can see it go straight through, which is a great guide. BUT if you are not told about it, how do you learn??

not all tips are good tips, but if they offer a different way of looking at things which might make your work easier, and more effective, then it is surely worth looking at.

having come from a family which has an ongoing tradition of high quality hand work in stone rather than wood, i do not believe that ALL the old ways are better.
i further do not always believe that modern methods are better either.

however if you are unprepared to learn then frankly you stagnate and do not develop a proper combination of skills.

paul

[andy king]

Excellently put Paul.
I was taught the traditional ways at college and then taught 'the right way' by the old boys once I got back to the real world. You adapt between the two and many others in between and end up with an amalgamation of all sorts of techniques that work, and that's what it's all about, adapting and learning all the time.
The actual initial tip you posted does make sense if you cannot remove a piece as a pattern. After all, a small vertical saw cut through the top part where the moulding is that allows a slip of card to slide in, then be drawn around for a perfect outline of even the most complex moulding has to be beneficial, despite what some may think.
On a polished skirting, maybe not, but painted? A bit of filler and a lick of paint and no one would ever know. I've seen more filler whacked into poor joints than would ever go into a kerf line!

cheers,

Andy

[engineerone]

andy i am with you,
having met you a couple of times at exhibitions, i know that you are skilled as well as erudite at a number of skills, so it is
nice to know that there are some others out there who are prepared to think outside the box ;D

who believes it is better to ask the question then wait for a number of answers before picking the most useful one, than dismissing all contrary views out of hand

paul

[gazza]

andrewking said:

I've seen more filler whacked into poor joints than would ever go into a kerf line!

Amen Brother !!
Cheers,
Gazza.

Ps Paul, A very usefull tip mate. Can you imagine the mess you would make trying to remove a 100 year old skirting that has had countless coats of paint over the years.
Cheers,
Gazza.

[engineerone]

it's tough enough removing mid 50's skirting

paul

[mrgrimsdale]

stree said:

Jacob? Go on then. explain. How?

"extract a sample" Rip out a skirting board? You need to explain how you see this so I can understand the advantages over the method initially presented in this thread..
Nicely though.

By extracting a sample I meant prising off a piece of skirting or architrave etc complete, with a view to replacing it when you return with the other new pieces you've copied.
But only if this can be done easily without major disruption.
There's often a short bit somewhere - you probably wouldn't take a 4M length away - unless it was lying there already loose.
Otherwise you'd make a profile with a bit of card, or with one of those profile copy thingies.
Have done both often. No problem.
Have also done the cut thing - but only on stuff which was going to be replaced entire, e.g. I'd cut out a short length of a glazing bar from a derelict window.

cheers
Jacob

[Roger]

We're getting there Just another couple of posts and we'll all be sitting right in the middle! - maybe

[mrgrimsdale]

Oh and Paul says it's a decorators tip
That figures - a devious decorators trick which he could get away with as he's already there with paint, filler etc. Also explains the MDF suggestion. Not for joiners
As for the shiny saw trick - mine are all too rusty.

cheers
Jacob

[andy king]

In the building trade, MDF is industry standard nowadays for internal moulding such as skirting and architraves. Blemish free, takes paint well, no problem. That was the point Paul was making as far as I can see.
Looks like JFC will have to rethink his strategy and get a proper job if MDF is not for joiners!!!

[mrgrimsdale]

andrewking said:

In the building trade, MDF is industry standard nowadays for internal moulding such as skirting and architraves. Blemish free, takes paint well, no problem. snip

Well blow me down nobody told me
I'll give up using wood immediately - it's soo much trouble, thanks for that Andy.

cheers
Jacob ;D ;D

[andy king]

Careful Jacob or you'll cut yourself on the rounded bevel of your razor sharp wit.

[dom]

My sister lives in a listed house and when they did their renovations they replaced the rotting panelling in the hall with( exactly the same design) Oak
National heritage or whatever they're called nowadays came along and told her they shoiuld have done it in Hornbeam, failing that, they could use MDF.
Guess what they had to use.

[modernist]

I was recycling some "veneered" chip board to my sheet stores yesterday and used a chisel to remove the ghastly surface moulding. I waws surprised when it emerged covered in goo from the double sided tape securing the wrapped mdf moulding to the panel.

Why do people spend good money on this c**p?

[mrgrimsdale]

dom said:

My sister lives in a listed house and when they did their renovations they replaced the rotting panelling in the hall with( exactly the same design) Oak
National heritage or whatever they're called nowadays came along and told her they shoiuld have done it in Hornbeam, failing that, they could use MDF.
Guess what they had to use.

Typical really - blind leading the blind: on the one hand the assumption that good quality old joinery means oak (very often wrong) and on the other the insistence on something very specific (redwood wudda done).
The Georgians and Victorians used millions of tons of softwoods for all their paneling and other joinery, without necessarily knowing what species it was. In fact nobody at the time would have known as many of them hadn't yet been identified and classified.
Softwood timber samples are much more difficult to identify than hardwoods and your conservation officers would rely on whatever they had read most recently, knowing jack sh*t themselves.

cheers
Jacob
PS I know f all too, but at least I know I know ;D

[afterglow]

Jacob said

conservation officers would rely on whatever they had read most recently, knowing jack sh*t themselves

and somewhere earlier may have cast shadows on the quality of all and any journalists. I'm fascinated to see how many more people can be attacked, without any intention of it being personal, in the one thread. Perhaps we can get up to 4000 posts and piss everybody off?

Let me continue in the same vein. Personally I find that all joiners are cowboys and shouldn't be allowed near real wood with their nailguns and chopsaws. They should be legally obliged to operate only in paint friendly mdf and laminated chipboard panels and do this only in the mobile homes of traveller colonies. Well, that's all the quality of their work is up to isn't it? And the travellers wouldn't let them get away with lying about costs and overcharging all the OAPs for every damned nail they use. Let's face it, all they're fit for is MFI fitted kitchens and bedrooms isn't it? Bloody cowboys.

Of course, that might be a blatent generalisation and I don't mean to offend anybody, so don't take it personally Jacob.

Cheers,

Lee

P.S. Definition: Sarcasm is a form of irony that is widely used in English especially when people are being humorous. Generally the sarcastic speaker or writer means the exact opposite of the word or phrase being used, often intending to be rude or to laugh at the person the words are addressed to.

[ivan]

I think this tip was from the USA where anything older than about 12 months is in a museum. Their houses are by and large built just like a scout hut (apoligies to mr BP) with bitumen felt "shingles" and a bit of glass wool to insulate, and incidentally 1000 US gallons of diesel in the basement for the "furnace" so it's a wonder they last that long.