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Post by Dan Tovey on Jan 13, 2009 6:22:16 GMT
In August last year, I received a call asking me to go and quote for fitting out a bedroom and a downstairs cloakroom. I arrived a couple of days later at a huge 'Footballers Wives' mansion out in the most expensive area of rural Cheshire. There was a good half million pounds worth of cars on the curved gravel drive. I was shown round by the wife. She was nice enough, but the husband seemed a miserable sod, never looking up from his laptop while sat at the table of their ostentatious Christians kitchen. The job they wanted me to do was a nice one. A fitted bedroom for their son in maple with walnut accents, and a painted cabinet to support the basin in the cloakroom. Right up my street. I was thinking of about six grand until she let slip that she had had Hammonds and Strachans round. Ten grand, then!  I agreed to email them a quote. However, driving away I felt uneasy. The fact that they were Asian was not the point. Something about them just didn't feel right and by the time I got back to the workshop I had decided I wasn't interested. She pestered me for days and finally I had to tell her politely that pressure of work meant that I was unable to take on the commission. Last night on the news at ten I saw the bloke again. He's the owner of the knitwear factory that's just been exposed for paying illegal immigrants slave wages for making clothes for Primark! It would have been about now that I would have been doing their job. I'm not sure what ethical dillemma I would have felt I was in, but I would certainly have been worried about getting paid! Phew! Cheers Dan |
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Post by trousers on Jan 13, 2009 10:34:28 GMT
Not sure I get the point of the post.
I'm sure you take a heafty deposit before you even think about doing any work for any customer, so you would have been covered that way at least, especially as you nearly doubled the quote.
So what did make you feel uneasy? If the fact they were asian was not the point why mention it at all?
I'm sure I'm making 5 out out of 2 + 2 but your attitude towards customers is making me feel uneasy.
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Post by thebloke on Jan 13, 2009 11:33:26 GMT
I've just been reading about this Primark caper on the Beeb news and I can understand Dan's feelings on this one. Even if a hefty deposit was obtained, would there be a guarantee that the balance would be paid on completion?...makes me wonder - Rob
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Post by dom on Jan 13, 2009 11:47:33 GMT
Good grief, you are joking, aren't you ?
If I'd worried about the ethics of 90% of my customers, my kids would have starved, not just in my furniture making time but working in The City of London amongst the biggest crooks in the world, bankers, underwriters and money brokers.
Get over it. We can't all afford to go Organic
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Post by cnc paul on Jan 13, 2009 12:05:06 GMT
Dan,
I had a similar situation last year when I was recommended to a city banker (spelt with a W ), he was nearing the end of a year long refurbishment of a house that he needed about £80K worth of fitted furniture excluding the kitchen.
When I asked to contact the architect to run over some details
to finalize a price he told me to ask him the questions he would ask the architect and then relay them to me, with that and wanting a delivery in two months I decided to walk away as I was getting a bad feeling.
He came back to me a month later with an offer of more time, sadly for him I still had that bad feeling.
I just did lot like his arrogant and dismissive attitude.
They are usually very quick in paying a deposit but not paying the final account.
Dan stick with the gut feeling
Paul
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Jan 13, 2009 12:38:12 GMT
It's not the 'ethics' so much as sussing out a potentially crap client. I've had some who were probably a bit dodgy in other areas but I still felt I could trust myself, and the converse; pillars of the respectable establishment who turn out to be ar*e****s
PS I wouldn't want to work for this particular rip off merchant either way!
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Post by paulchapman on Jan 13, 2009 13:01:57 GMT
Get over it. We can't all afford to go Organic ;D |
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Post by cnc paul on Jan 13, 2009 13:11:57 GMT
Get over it. We can't all afford to go Organic ;D I think it is more a question of getting paid at the end of the Job. Paul |
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Post by Head clansman on Jan 13, 2009 13:25:06 GMT
Hi all
its not important what first raises those doubts in your mind
always always trust your instincts, i always went on first impressions. When that feeling comes, back off quickly, No job is worth losing your shirt over. hc
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Post by Dan Tovey on Jan 13, 2009 15:58:43 GMT
Not sure I get the point of the post. I'm sure you take a heafty deposit before you even think about doing any work for any customer, so you would have been covered that way at least, especially as you nearly doubled the quote. Even with a 50% deposit, if you have difficulty collecting the balance at the end of the job you are considerably out of pocket. A great deal of trust is being placed in the customer. So what did make you feel uneasy? It doesn't matter. As others have said, if your gut feeling is to walk away, that is the thing to do. If the fact they were asian was not the point why mention it at all? Because anyone who saw the news or read the papers will know that this guy is Asian. If I hadn't mentioned it someone else would have. I regularly do work for Asians. However, as is the case with clients of all ethnicities, I now only take on jobs from people I like. Long and bitter experience has taught me that the clients that turn out to be tw@ts are generally the ones that you had a bad feeling about right at the beginning. I'm sure I'm making 5 out out of 2 + 2 but your attitude towards customers is making me feel uneasy. Why? I was just giving a story about a potential client who failed the auditon, and then turned up on the news a few months later in an undercover expose. I'm very glad I didn't get invoved. Dan |
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Post by woodworker on Jan 13, 2009 16:16:21 GMT
I'm very glad I didn't get invoved. Dan So am I ;D . We did this job, for a tad under £12000, got paid 2 weeks after completion. Ta very much  |
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Post by jfc on Jan 13, 2009 16:22:51 GMT
;D ;D
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Post by trousers on Jan 13, 2009 17:02:33 GMT
Well well, just goes to show ;D
Not everyone is in your position and can turn down 10k worth of work. If you think someone's a bit iffy, surely you insist on (a lot of) stage payments even after a hefty deposit - or don't you? Perhaps everyone else who jumped to your defence doesn't either, but I know I would. Also at 10k i'd be getting them to sign a contract which makes that as clear as day.
As for the Asian bit, it is totally irrelevant to the story. They could have been Albanian and running a prostitution racket but I doubt that would have got a mention.
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Post by cnc paul on Jan 13, 2009 17:38:35 GMT
Also at 10k i'd be getting them to sign a contract which makes that as clear as day. When they still don't pay, you could always get you solicitor to take the case on @ £200-300 per hour. ;D Paul |
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Post by trousers on Jan 13, 2009 18:30:49 GMT
Well yeah if its not small claims court stuff, but if your contract is correct you'll win anyway, plus costs.
Everyone on this forum (I assume) has had an invite to quote on a job and walked away for some reason, but you can't do that everytime. If you take it on, make sure it doesn't bite back.
Trust can work both ways. How do you guarantee to your customers that you aren't going to do 80% of the work, collect your stage payment and bugger off never to finish the job?
If you advertise online its the same as yellow pages. Never met the client before and no recommendatiuon. So you rely on Dans gut feeling to judge the client. Can't be bothered to do some background checks? In which case, as I said, you've obviously got enough on your plate.
Not everybody is so lucky.
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Post by Dan Tovey on Jan 13, 2009 19:42:10 GMT
Well well, just goes to show ;D Not everyone is in your position and can turn down 10k worth of work. If you think someone's a bit iffy, surely you insist on (a lot of) stage payments even after a hefty deposit - or don't you? Actually, I get 25% with the order, 25% when I go to measure up before starting work, and 50% on completon. But that's not really the point. A job like this would take up 5 or 6 weeks of my time; a full month in the workshop followed by a week in the client's house fitting it all. For things to work out then trust between the client and myself is vital. Also important to me however, is a certain rapport between us. If I'm going to be spending that long working for someone, I want it to be enjoyable as well as profitable. Life to me is too short to be spending time with people I don't like or cannot identify with. These criterea are more important to me than the pure potential profit that a job might bring. You are right. I am very fortunate in that I can turn down customers I don't like the look of. I used to run a company with bigger overheads and employ several staff. Then I had to fight for whatever work I could get and took on everything on offer. It was a nightmare. I now work as a sole trader employing no-one and share very cheap business premises with another cabinetmaker. I can now make a nice living on a fraction of the business I used to have to bring in. I am booked up with work for the next seven months. My mate Phil who I share with is the same. Maybe the recession will hit us hard and we might have to start being a little less picky in the work we take on. So be it. For as long as I can though, I wll choose the customers who I get on with. I like a life without too much stress. Cheers Dan |
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Post by trousers on Jan 13, 2009 20:00:16 GMT
quote 'I like a life without too much stress'
I'll drink to that!
Nice video of the wife by the way.
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stevep
Junior Member
Posts: 63
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Post by stevep on Jan 13, 2009 20:25:55 GMT
Trousers - are you telling us that Dan's avatar is a video of your wife?  |
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Post by roines on Jan 13, 2009 21:57:45 GMT
Life to me is too short to be spending time with people I don't like or cannot identify with. Tell me about it, 14 years of marriage and she still won't leave me ;D |
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Post by trousers on Jan 13, 2009 22:00:30 GMT
Yes!
If you look closely you'll see my fingerprints on her ti**s ;D
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Post by roines on Jan 13, 2009 22:02:56 GMT
Yes! If you look closely you'll see my fingerprints on her ti**s ;D Titmans tools ;D |
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Post by Dan Tovey on Jan 14, 2009 6:11:34 GMT
I made my wife a lovely jewelery box for her birthday. Rosewood. It cost me a fortune. In fact... ...I spent my whole wad on her chest!  |
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Post by trousers on Jan 14, 2009 10:22:44 GMT
Boom Boom
I reckon tho' if youd be kind enough to use the next bit of the video as your avatar we'd see at least one of them escape....... ;D
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