Axminster spindle tooling

[jfc]

Just had a look at the new axminster window tooling for doing stormproof stop morticed and scribed windows £3500 for a block ;D bet they aint sold many !

[cnc paul]

I would want a spindle attached to it for that price ;D

[woodworker]

This isn't for a block, but several blocks.
In total there's 7 and some of these include stacks.

The first one alone which moulds the mullion/Transom is a 3 stack.
Then there's the scribe for the above which is a 2 stack.

After that there's the chamfer & ovolo glazing rebate which is another 2 stack. followed by a 3 stack of the same with bead retrieval.

Followed by a 4 stacked sash chamfer & ovolo set.
then there's the Sash rail finger joint, 2 stack and finally the Sash stile scribe finger joint which is a 3 stack.

then to complete the system you need a head drip and external cill block.

Sounds cheap to me, Whitehill want over a grand for a comb/finger set alone.

If your making lots of these types of window it's a good investment.


Most of this is badged Whitehill products.

[jfc]

Its ovolo or chamfer not both as i saw it , so for both it's more money to make a not very good window .

[mrgrimsdale]

Don't forget making your own cutters as an option. My total spindle tooling costs at the mo are probably £300ish (one day I'll work it out exactly) and I can do any moulding I choose, dead accurately. It was the only option for me, being called upon to reproduce period detail. Not possible with bought cutters and very expensive with made to measure- which is never that accurate anyway.
You can tool up a spindle for less than the cost of a typical diy router cutter collection and with 100x the productivity.

cheers
Jacob

[jfc]

I dunno NLS scan the timber sample i send them , the scanner sees through the years of paint and the cutters come out perfect . All for around £90 .

[mrgrimsdale]

My local shop make cutters with a copy device which follows a made up profile, or the moulding itself. Maybe it's just not up to the job.
But then £90 is not cheap even if it's done perfectly. I've got a lot of profiles, most of them one offs, many of them modified versions of earlier ones. It'd be £thousands. One prob is the number of minor variations; often copying less than perfect originals which were in turn made with hand filed moulding plane blades.

cheers
Jacob

[jfc]

I know what you meen but ive had a go at making my own and i wasnt very good at it . If the customer only needs a small amount and its a small moulding i dont mind just buying the cutters at £45 and blanking off the limiter with a rebate limiter but if its a larger moulding i tell them it's £90 for the cutters . If it's alot of moulding the £90 doesnt even come into it really .

[woodworker]

jfc said:

Its ovolo or chamfer not both as i saw it , so for both it's more money to make a not very good window .

You choose which you want, the knife to change the profile aren't that expensive .

£3500 for a block

As I mentioned you get a lot more than that

so for both it's more money to make a not very good window .

I think thats a bit unfair, they are very good windows in fact, they might not be everyones choice in design etc, and they suit the modern day regs etc.

I personally prefer more traditional windows but demand is not what it was sadly in these parts. the ever changing regs etc doesn't help and sadly to most people a window is just a window and they aren't to bothered how it's made or looks to a degree.

Plastic still rules in these parts, but as I mentioned a while back wood is making a comeback ;D ;D.

[jfc]

storm proof sashes have always been a bad design because the joints fail .

[woodworker]

jfc said:

storm proof sashes have always been a bad design because the joints fail .

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[opener]

mrgrimsdale said:

Don't forget making your own cutters as an option. My total spindle tooling costs at the mo are probably £300ish (one day I'll work it out exactly) and I can do any moulding I choose, dead accurately. It was the only option for me, being called upon to reproduce period detail. Not possible with bought cutters and very expensive with made to measure- which is never that accurate anyway.
You can tool up a spindle for less than the cost of a typical diy router cutter collection and with 100x the productivity.

cheers
Jacob

Hi Jacob

My situation sounds similar to yours in that I make all manner of windows and doors etc and need to match original profiles. I've accumulated a large quantity of cutters over the years and can make small profiles or adapt existing ones myself.

Of course I can't use any of the blocks or cutters now as they have been banned so I'd be interested to know what type of block and cutters you use so that I can legitimise myself.

Cheers Malcolm

[mrgrimsdale]

I use _{banned ones} don't tell anyone. i.e. plain HSS blanks in an old pattern Whitehill block- still a lot safer than the earlier techniques. The main prob with new reg safety cutters is the peg or whatever holds them in, as this prevents fine adjustment. I often need to tilt a cutter a tiny bit.
The answer would be a tilting spindle, which I can't quite afford at the moment. This could make my type of hand made cutters totally compliant as far as I know - and open the way to very cheap and legitimate tooling.

cheers
Jacob

[jfc]

Jacob , why dont you just pass the cost of the cutters onto the customer If you blank off the limiter with a rebate limiter its £45 to get a perfect cutter . Must take you more time to make a cutter than that ? Myself i like cutters and limiters at £90 but if the customer wants to stand in front of me while i machine timber then i'll use an old whitehill block ;D
I suppose you need a cutter flying out at you to realise you really dont need to take the risk !

[mrgrimsdale]

jfc said:

Jacob , why dont you just pass the cost of the cutters onto the customer If you blank off the limiter with a rebate limiter its £45 to get a perfect cutter . Must take you more time to make a cutter than that ? Myself i like cutters and limiters at £90 but if the customer wants to stand in front of me while i machine timber then i'll use an old whitehill block ;D
I suppose you need a cutter flying out at you to realise you really dont need to take the risk !

I do pass it on - it goes in the estimate or down on the time sheet. I like doing it myself - you are more in control, and can adjust/adapt etc as and when you need to. It's also a satisfying hands-on thing to do, getting close to the wood, the old woodworkers, similar b**x etc etc

cheers
Jacob

[cuttingsolutions]

Jason
too lazy to look but is there a link on their web site to this seemingly expensive set of tools.

[jfc]

What i'm saying is you can get perfect cutters to do one job , no need to change them and you are safe . If the next cutter needs changing then buy another set . The amount of time you must spend messing around with cutters surley cant make it worth while and all the time risking a cutter comming out .
Doug , i'm to lazy to get the link for you right now ;D

[cuttingsolutions]

jfc said:

i dont mind just buying the cutters at £45 and blanking off the limiter with a rebate limiter

Ahem
All very irreegular of course and not soem thing H&S need to know about....they have eyes everywhere.

[jfc]

f**k em ;D

[cuttingsolutions]

I personally hope no cutters ever come out of any cutterhead....i have seen first hand the mess it can make....
and its not nice to clean up after

[jfc]

As a side note .
Doug could you put your number and what you sell in the for sale section please .
I went to call you the other day and couldnt find a number .

[cuttingsolutions]

jfc said:

As a side note .
Doug could you put your number and what you sell in the for sale section please .

Jason
I notice you call me Doug...he is a contact at a supplier and we have been confused before.....
Dave will happily add any info you want ....if he knew how.......do you want me to just add a post giving a brief detail of what i can supply showing a link to my still being constructed web site?
Phone number is on the web site...

Dave

[modernist]

Can we have some clarity please. I have been dealing with a "doug" at cutting solutions

[mrgrimsdale]

No doubt Doug's tools are marvellous, but do we want this site to be used as a sales pitch?

cheers
Jacob

[jfc]

Doug or dave ;D sell cutters for the tools we all use , wheres the harm in letting us know where to get a good blade from ? I for one are stuck with axminster or d and m because i dont know anyone else .