Workshop Layout

[sainty]

Further to my previous thread about my upcoming work, I have managed to get myself some workshop space. Its a bit agricultural, but its dry and secure.

Anyhow, I have been having a bit of a think about the layout, heres what I've come up with..



I know about the work flow, but the majority of my work at the moment is MDF/sheet material so the layout is based loosely on that.

Anyone got any tips or "i wish I'd done that" moments that they'd like to share?

rgds

Sainty

[cnc paul]

Hi Sainty,

My choice would be to put the Extractor by the r/h side of the doors........Keep the dust away fron the finishing room, and maybe put the finishing room in the bottom Left corner with the storage rack down the side.


Good Luck


Paul

[9fingers]

Stuart, I might be tempted to move the P/T out of the line of fire of the table saw.
Might get in the way when ripping long lengths?
Maybe swap it for the bench ?

Not a problem if your P/T is on a mobile base of course.

When you your spindle going, you possibly need more in and outfeed space for it

Bob

[jfc]

I wish i built a bigger shed ;D

I would put the finishing room as close to the doors as possible so your not having to lift finished work over machines . The morticer needs room both sides but the lathe can go in a corner as can the extractor .Router table , spindle moulder , planer and saw bench i would have in a line in the middle .

[Scrit]

It might be worth considering arranging your machines with the tables at different heights to reduce the conflicts. Similarly angling the machines slightly can help you when machining longer pieces in a small shop.

Another possible thing to consider is the positioning of your drill press. Personally I'd try to have a drill press and chop saw over near the assembly bench as they're often most needed at that point in the workflow (e.g. for trimming stuff, mitre sawing beading, etc), although if your SCMS is also acting as a primary crosscut then that won't really be feasible.

I'd second the comments about siting of the DX - keep it as far away as possible from your spray room to minimise the problems of cross contamination

Good luck with your project!

Scrit

[sainty]

Cheers Gents


Heres the new revision


The MDF on the floor is an 8x4 sheet showing the floorspace for cutting up using a rail/saw combi. Definitely agree with the extractor next to the door.

Amazing to think that I'm having trouble fitting my gear in given where I have come from.

Thanks again


Sainty

Meeting the electrician on Monday to get some sockets added etc so bit of a rush for the plan, anything that I need to consider?

[sainty]

I'd like to upgrade to some sort of "plumbed in" extraction - whats the minimum spec that I need. I was thinking of something like this but do I need to go to a higher spec. Maybe something like this?

Any thoughts?

ps just seen this which seems a bargain

[Scrit]

The main thoughts are try to go for a 200mm or 150mm main line - 100mm is too small and cramps even the smallest extractor. A 12in saw or planer thicknesser will use about 800cfm to mextract MDF or other fine dust, so in filtration terms bigger is better. Secondly the standard bags are crap for MDF - they just let 30 to 50% of the dust through, so you may need to invest in better filter socks if you are doing a lot of sheet material (or vent the air from the DX straight outside, at least to start with). Lastly place run at least one of the feeds to machines down to the floor and add a sweep-up box at floor level. That's a real time saver

Scrit

[jfc]

They have one of those cheaper extractors at the timber yard i use on the wall saw . There seems to be more dust on the floor than in the bag and the guys that use it say its rubbish . Cant say so for myself but thats what they say . I have a small EB myself and never have any trouble but i know another forum member who didnt like thiers .
Shame i have just got rid of a massive startrite for £30

[cnc paul]

Hi Sainty,

Thats a better layout......... you will need to check that a full sheet of material will fit between the saw blade and the door with you standing behind it and some clearance.

I have a similar Jet extractor with the metal fine filter on my CNC router, it works fine.... As Scrit said bigger is better (ducting) the biggest problem with 150mm ducting is cost, Axminster don't have it in the catalogue, but I expect the can get some.

Good luck



Paul

[engineerone]

personally i would ensure that the p/t is on a moveable chassis, so that most of the time it is against the wall, then you can move it when you need it. always useful to have room to manouvre when you do not have any machining to do.

paul

[jfc]

What do you use the bandsaw for ? I use mine for tenons and small curves so it can go in a corner or against a wall with other things beside it . Maybe spin the finish room around so the doors are nearer the main doors and put the storage the other way so you dont restrict the spindle moulder . I think anything that needs timber passing through it need to be in the middle and anything you can get away with flipping the timber over to do the same job can go nearer a wall ( chop saw for one )

[gazza]

Hi Sainty, nice space mate
Stay well clear of the Fox extractor !!
After a bit of research (seen the offer as well) I have found out from a previous user that they emit fine dust everywhere So would definitely need a fine filter cartridge at around £120.( if available)
A retailer told me that the failure rate of these machines is incredible so much so that he does not recommend them( he is a Fox stockist), secondly the volume rate is vastly over stated !! He reckons that they have doubled the rate as there is two ports on it
The Axminster is the same machine, so is the Jet but the Jet comes with a fine filter cartridge as standard, and the volume of 1150 cubic m per hour 100mm hose is a bit more realistic again the failure rate of the motors is quite high
The big Axminster will need two fine filters
I have just bought the Rojek 2000, Its a big extractor with a Siemens industrial motor, fine filter bag included, and shifts 1560 cubic m per hour on a 100mm hose with the facility for a 150mm hose (volume will increase).
OK a bit more expensive but your getting a machine that can run all day
HTH
Cheers,
Gazza.

[Scrit]

cncpaul said:

As Scrit said bigger is better (ducting) the biggest problem with 150mm ducting is cost, Axminster don't have it in the catalogue, but I expect the can get some.

I'd say it's better to go to a proper ductwork specialist, such as Nordfab, Dustolex, PJ, etc. We have loads of them in this part of the world

Scrit

[jfc]

Maybe thats why my EB works well because i have a fine filter on it rather than a bag .

[sainty]

OK thanks again, last iteration for tonight.



Point taken on the bandsaw, it was more about fitting it in rather than any sort of thought!

I've got the bench off the wall, which I prefer. The router table is on wheels, not stuck permanently in front of the lathe.

Also tried to keep all the machines as close to the dx as possible having seen the price of the ducting!

Thanks for all the help on the dx. I'll add the Rojek to the list Gazza and take the Fox off, which is taking the spending the wrong way. This jet looks quite good as it filters to 0.2microns which sounds good to me as I do a lot with MDF. I was also looking at the Trend AirPro which will be interesting when it comes out. Would you need both?

Cheers

Sainty

[jfc]

Just thinking off the top of my head here but another idea is to build the finish area with a strong enough cieling to have the storage for timber and tools with a ladder / jacobs ladder .
I move my workshop around for what i am doing so you need to think about your work load and what you want to do before you comit to putting things set in stone . That table saw takes up alot of room , do you really need one when you can buy timber in or is a table saw really a money saver ? I get my stuff cut for free because i'm a nice bloke ..... Ok i spend alot at the timber yard

[jfc]

Looking at the area you have your not that far over what i have . Ok it adds up 2m here or there but in the scale of things it's not alot .I think that finish room is going to kill your space . I have my finish area plus storage of stuff i will never use outside the workshop but still enclosed . (i will measure up tomorrow ) This leaves the workshop for work and more stuff i will never use ;D I also have another shed for stuff i will never use ;D but it works as timber comming in for the next job but out of the way and i still struggle for space . Oh and then there is the hot tub shed / summer house when its finished that acts as a storage area and another garage i rent
At the end of the day its your baby but if you tell us what your looking at doing / making then maybe we can help more

[sainty]

Theres enough height to have a mezzanine floor which I plan to do if things work out the way I want them too. At which point I will put in an office but its not a bad idea to put in some of the foundations now and create some storage up there.

The table saw earns its keep at the moment and deserves its place plus the outfeed table makes a good assembly table.

I cant imagine how much I would have to spend to get all my timber cut up for me.

rgds


Sainty

[jfc]

I cant imagine what i would save in time and money by buying in sawn timber and sheets as ive never done it . I would like to cut up my own sheet material but i can tweak what i get cut for free on an Elu flipover . Is there really a massive saving in milling your own stock ? I know there is in moulding it but milling it up from sawn ?

[engineerone]

more thoughts, whilst everybody talks about having the area around the saw, as indeed have i in the past, but i wonder
whether you have actually considered moving finished work out.

at the moment, you seem to have arranged things for timber in, then prep and finally assembly etc. but do a flow diagram in your head.

does all you work involve the receipt of sheet goods, instant conversion into cut pieces and then assembly processes, or do you actually store large sheets??

reason i ask is that you do not appear to have allowed for easy movement of the finished items out of the doors. (i'm assuming you only have entry doors, and not two sets) moving heavy stuff over and around the table saw is gonna be a pita.

the whole thing about the finishing room is making sure that stuff can be easily moved into there, the same applies for moving it on.

said it before, but i restrict what i make to certain sizes that i can work on, and also carry, which means for me no bigger than 600x600x 1200 tops. so larger items i would tend to make in two pieces to ensure i can carry them, and also move around them in the shop.

i have my table saw on a moveable bench, as indeed is my small p/t but they still take up a LOT of room.

are you going to have a pulley system to lift stuff and move it in and out???

good luck

paul

[sainty]

Its a 24hr operation in here isn't it!

Ok, let me tell you where I am (said in scottish accent))

Most of my work at the moment is creating these



They are display booths. The bases are 18mm MDF with a 2x2 subframe. The walls are 9mm mdf panels with 18mm mdf studs to create a kind of torsion effect.

I ususally get about 40/50 sheets of MDF delivered at a time including some 10x4 18mm sheets hence the need for sheet storage.

I then rip the studs and cut the panels using a combination of table saw and festool and rail.

They then get assembled before delivery. One delivery can be squeezed into a medium wheel base transit if careful to give you an idea of scale.

However, I also have a couple of other irons in the fire. I have two kitchens to build, one for a house that I am developing, and another for a client that I have snared (not as bad as it sounds, I have been up front with them ). The house also requires windows, doors (int and ext) stairs etc which I want to do as much of as possible as this is the perfect opportunity to get some promotional material together.
I have also been asked to do some built in wardrobes.

So, the workshop has to be able to cope with the display booths, as that is what pays the bills. I want it to be able to cope with all the other stuff as that is how i would like to pay the bills.

I have given myself this year to get things up and running to try and get some money coming in from the "wood" side of things rather than the property side of things. The workshop came up on easy in easy out terms so I took it as I cant work out of my workshop at home and produce the booths efficiently.

So that's me. I ask lots of questions here because I want to learn and become good at what I do. (sounds a bit cheesy doesn't it). I also want to avoid making mistakes as I am flying solo at the moment.

So thanks for all the advice received so far, looking forward to getting loads more. ;D

rgds

Sainty

[wizer]

sounds to be like you need a wall saw....

[sainty]

Don't think that I haven't thought about it Wizer. I'm still waiting for JFC to build one to see how easy it is. They do come up on Ebay but they are never local. What sort of accuracy do you get with a panel saw?

rgds

Sainty

[jfc]

I'm still waiting for JFC to build one to see how easy it is

What are you trying to say ;D