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Post by jfc on Mar 18, 2008 20:51:21 GMT
If you where to make a set of french doors and frame and the inside frame size was 1220mm X 1980 , thats the size of the hole the doors will be going in . What size would you make the doors before you clamped them up , cleaned them up before hanging them ?
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Post by jonnyd on Mar 18, 2008 21:01:21 GMT
I would usually allow about 5mm extra so each door 615mm. If the doors are to be rebated i would add 5mm plus half of the rebate.
Jon
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Post by jfc on Mar 18, 2008 21:03:23 GMT
Yes the doors are rebated . It's not a trick question i just wondered what size others would make them .
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Post by jonnyd on Mar 18, 2008 21:10:26 GMT
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Post by opener on Mar 18, 2008 21:26:01 GMT
I would set it out full size allowing 2mm on each hanging stile and another 2mm between the rebated stiles. If you want to play safe then reduce to 1mm or 1.5mm giving yourself some options if it doesn't come out exactly spot on.
Cheers
Malcolm
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Post by jfc on Mar 18, 2008 21:32:15 GMT
So you would make them spot on before any cleaning / sanding or cutting horns or even cutting the tenon waste off ?
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Post by opener on Mar 18, 2008 21:53:15 GMT
Yes - but then I am a bit obsessive about getting everything more or less exact  |
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Post by jfc on Mar 18, 2008 22:08:43 GMT
Hmmm , i make them tight or with a 2mm gap over all the doors . I would never make them /clamp them up with all gaps in place .
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Post by pitbull on Mar 18, 2008 23:20:15 GMT
I make them 613 each at least. But more than likely 615, Easier on the eyes.
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Post by jfc on Mar 18, 2008 23:29:54 GMT
So you would oversize a door or window to shoot in ?
Lets make it one door/window . Doesnt matter about the size i still make it within 1mm or tight and shoot it in .
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Mar 19, 2008 6:57:46 GMT
I would set it out full size allowing 2mm on each hanging stile and another 2mm between the rebated stiles. If you want to play safe then reduce to 1mm or 1.5mm giving yourself some options if it doesn't come out exactly spot on. Cheers Malcolm Same. Aim for everything to fit 1st time. Careful setting out with a rod saves loadsa fiddling about later. In other words I wouldn't necessarily know exactly what size it was as all the dimensions would have been worked out on, and lifted off the rod. Including the meeting rebate detail which is potentially confusing - people have been known to take off where they should have added on cheers Jacob |
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Post by jfc on Mar 19, 2008 7:50:50 GMT
Just add 6mm to each door and you have room for a 12mm rebate , you dont need a rod for that ( i told you not to get him started on rods ;D ) What i was getting at is do you allow to shoot a door/window in or do you clamp up with all gaps in place . I was taught that there where to many variables to allow for gaps at clamp up so you make it over size . I thought i was being smart by making things 1mm smaller but still allowing for shooting in . Right now i have 16 casements , 4 sets of doors and 2 sash windows on the go . Are you telling me you would make full size rods for all of these ? |
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Mar 19, 2008 8:44:12 GMT
Yes definitely - everything made exact to size including clearances, and everything on a rod.
You've got to work them all out anyway but doing them on a rod, just once, is much easier and quicker and is a permanent reference through the whole job. Even more essential when you've got a big job to do.
Doing it without a rod doesn't save any time - you've got to work out every step as you go, you might as well do it all before you start.
cheers
Jacob
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Post by jfc on Mar 19, 2008 8:56:16 GMT
I disagree ;D
Once you have marked out your head and stile you have your "rods" for the rest of your window/door . I can see if you are making multiples of the same thing then drawing out a full size rod would be worth while ( although i still wouldnt i would just mark everything from the first one )
I think the differance is i like to get in the dog and duck by 3 but your happy to wait untill 5 ;D
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Mar 19, 2008 9:36:50 GMT
The only difference is that I'd do it (head and stiles) on a separate piece of board usually 6" mfc. So it doesn't take any longer. I'd also add the doors and/or window details to the same drawing so you know it all fits. You end up with full size drawing, or at least a rod with all the marks in the right place.
The time saving is in the clarity of the information - no fiddling about with calculations on an envelope, and in the reduction of mistakes.
Not doing anything which you don't have to do anyway, but kitting yourself out with a full size reference which you can use at any/all stages. You can take it on-site with you if necessary e.g. for fitted stuff, where it comes in really handy. Ask Sgian Dubh to send you his article, which is about rods and fitted furniture.
cheers
Jacob
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Post by jfc on Mar 19, 2008 21:46:30 GMT
See what happens Jacob , you start on about rods and no one answers the flipping question  ;D |
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Mar 19, 2008 22:00:18 GMT
OK heres the answer: don't know, don't need to know.
The door sizes would be whatever the rod says.
You'd start the rods with the 1220mm X 1980 marks, draw in a centre line for the horizontal rod, add rebate details, work back to the stile sizes, etc etc eventually taking marks directly off, without necessarily measuring anything after the rod is finished.
cheers
Jacob
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Post by jfc on Mar 19, 2008 22:05:24 GMT
And then you send that out to site with horns on expecting a carpenter to hang it with no fuss ?
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Mar 19, 2008 22:22:26 GMT
Well I'd be hanging it myself, but if it was someone else there shouldn't be a prob if the 1220mm X 1980 is right to start with
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Post by jfc on Mar 19, 2008 22:35:23 GMT
Ahhhhh now we are getting to it . So you fit them yourself , so you can tweak them on site ?
We are still 3 - 2 that make them over size and shoot them in ......
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Mar 20, 2008 7:57:39 GMT
Ahhhhh now we are getting to it . So you fit them yourself , so you can tweak them on site ? We are still 3 - 2 that make them over size and shoot them in ...... Why? Why not make them to size and save yourself a job?, |
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Post by jfc on Mar 20, 2008 8:09:05 GMT
Well i can only speak for myself but i like my work to be spot on . That means the gaps around things are spot on and not sort of ok cause thats how it turned out .
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Mar 20, 2008 8:17:15 GMT
Me too!
Though - if making/fitting french doors to an existing frame I'd measure the frame very carefully, and for plumb. If not perfect (they never are) I'd then work to a size which would fit after a bit of tweaking.
If all new then I'd tweak the frame fittings to make the doors hang well.
French door problem is that all errors will show at the meeting rebate, which is one good reason for planting on and fitting rebate mouldings rather than rebating the stiles themselves. This also makes making easier as all the stiles are the same.
cheers
Jacob
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;D