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Post by engineerone on Oct 21, 2007 21:01:17 GMT
typical, ;D but having said that they are not specifically designed for hardwoods  anyway i have other chisels at 30 degrees, so but i will try it to see what happens. anyway, you saw it! paul  |
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Post by Alf on Oct 22, 2007 8:09:24 GMT
15 years ago? They are newer ones!  25° is really best, in most cases, as the primary ginding angle - agree with Colin, bump it up to 30° at the honing stage. Might use 25° for delicate paring chisels but I'd expect some unhappiness from oak. Heck, iirc I got unhappiness at 30° in the LNs - stoopid A2 steel.  Cheers, Alf |
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Oct 22, 2007 9:35:35 GMT
What size is that chisel, it looks smallish, 3/8"? In which case 25deg is way too fine for oak. Abs minimum honing 30deg , more might be better. Also with small chisel (with all infact) you are better off with a single bevel for a stronger edge. Keep sharp with regular dabs on the oil stone, don't grind 2 bevels , don't get distracted into crazy sharpening practices or you will never get any work done!
cheers
Jacob
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Post by andy king on Oct 22, 2007 15:13:49 GMT
I agree that Paul's honing angle is too shallow, he's likely to get a crumbling effect on thinner bevels. 30 degrees has seemingly always been the accepted norm for general honing angles, although for freehand honers like me, I can pretty well guarantee that although I can get 'em razor sharp in a matter of seconds, the chances of any of them actually being at 30 degrees are practically non existant  . One thing from the initial posting by Paul, and the reason I recommended the Bacho's was that he mentioned for site use. To me, that means hammers, not mallets, and despite Euro style chisels like two cherries, or the Japanese rough carpentry one linked by dchenard having hoops to prevent splitting, they are unlikely to be as durable as a plastic handled one if they are constantly struck with the good old 20-24oz claw hammer. I've smacked the living daylights out of my old Stanley blue handled ones as well as my Marples blue chips with a hammer over the last couple of decades and more and despite looking a little sorry for themselves, they are still going strong. Andy |
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Post by engineerone on Oct 22, 2007 18:46:40 GMT
nice one andy, and very useful. i realise that we have gone off topic a little, and not wanting to get into the "sharpening" debate, but i do think it is relevant, that in many places, it is suggested that you go 25 degrees for softwood and 30 for hard. since i am personally lucky to have a largish collection of chisels, i set them so different sets have different angles. i had done the marples before the others, i must confess not to having the same problem with my nooitgedabt, and my bahco's are 30 degrees, so am aiming for the best of all. i guess like many people i had not considered that smaller chisels needed flatter angles to impart more strength. no one tells you in the books, and if you are working alone, and not trained, how else do you learn???  another interesting thought, the 6mm cutter on my plough which is a stanley, has exhibited the same problem with shattering, and i think that is 25 degrees too, so will look more carefully. ta again paul |
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Post by Alf on Oct 22, 2007 18:51:28 GMT
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Post by engineerone on Oct 22, 2007 19:18:38 GMT
cheers alf, ihad read some of your stuff earlier, just not gotten round to doing it  however, i do understand and agree with what you say. paul |
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Oct 22, 2007 21:54:40 GMT
snip i guess like many people i had not considered that smaller chisels needed flatter angles to impart more strength. no one tells you in the books, and if you are working alone, and not trained, how else do you learn??? another interesting thought, the 6mm cutter on my plough which is a stanley, has exhibited the same problem with shattering, and i think that is 25 degrees too, so will look more carefully. ta again paul For a given pressure the smaller the chisel the greater the stress on the edge, so the greater the honing angle required AOTBE. Sort of. But in the real world - you pick up a chisel and do whatever - if the edge looks too weak you hone a bit steeper - if its OK but you fancy a keener cut you can try a bit more acute. It's a continuous process on the job, which is why the paraphernalia of crazy sharpening gets in the way and you are better off doing it quickly free-hand, as and when you need to. Too much theoretical fiddling about holds up the job! cheers Jacob |
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Post by andy king on Oct 22, 2007 22:02:46 GMT
Absolutely spot on!
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robo
Junior Member
Posts: 70
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Post by robo on Oct 23, 2007 11:53:55 GMT
Definitely not for site work, but just seen an announcement of some Dovetail chisels from Ashley Ilses with elliptical backs instead of bevel edges? Reaches the parts that others cannot reach ? R. |
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Post by craigmarshall on Oct 23, 2007 13:20:57 GMT
I've a set of 2 Cherries (polished version) and there're not that great. I've also got a decent set of Bahco chisels and I do like them and they hold a good edge. I've also used both 2 cherries (I have the £60 set of six from axminster and have just ordered the 32mm one too) and the bahco ones. The bahco ones seem good enough, but I could get a better edge on the 2 cherries ones. Maybe that's because my sharpening technique has improved since I tried bahco, but I'm not sure. I have also tried lots of different brands of Japanese chisels (my colleague has about 15 or more) and these hold a better edge still, but they are much more expensive. The only two downsides for the 2 cherries ones I can see are 1) they are a bit ugly, the wood handles look like cheap wood, but have held up fine to hammering and malleting. 2) they seem over-polished and hence the backs are not quite flat, so need a fair bit of flatting on a coarse stone, after this they are great. For instance, the 20mm one took under 10 minutes on a coarse dry diamond stone with moderate pressure. Obviously Jap ones are even easier to flatten. If I had limitless money, I'd have a load of Japanese ones to use every day and some Lie Nielsen ones just to show off with  Cheers, Craig |
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Post by mooretoolsplease on Oct 23, 2007 19:42:05 GMT
I've got a couple of sets of marples with the amber handles. one is about 3 years old and the other is much older, ( when were these first made?)
The older ones hold their edge at least twice as long, thats with the same sharpening regime.
They are both sharpened to around 35 degrees.
Bit steep against the recommended, but they hold up well enough.
I can't really tell much difference between 30 and 35 anyways.
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Post by engineerone on Oct 23, 2007 21:10:43 GMT
just to be really dumb, got the makro catalogue today for the latest specials, i note they are doing jcb chisel sets for a fiver plus vat, any one tried them yet? ? i have also re sharpened the marples at 30 and will see how it stands up this time. paul |
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Post by andy king on Oct 23, 2007 22:03:22 GMT
Hi Paul,
To be honest, at a fiver they have to be worth a punt!
I have a beat up old chisel that I use to split out old frames if I'm replacing them and it doesn't matter if it hits brick stone or nail, and if you have a budget set for a fiver for such purposes, it's not so gut wrenching when it happens!
Andy
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Post by engineerone on Oct 23, 2007 23:09:13 GMT
well having got a lidl set, and a general tools set at this price, i am not sure i need more paul |
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Post by dantovey on Oct 26, 2007 9:07:19 GMT
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