confused, comparison of oak prices

[dirtydeeds]

before i start, id better say im a carpenter so i do know the differnce between PAR and sawn sizes, this isnt my problem

ive been buying "real" wood for only a few months in the form of boards that have been planed all round

so far ive used three different suppliers with the specific intention of assessing the quality of timber they supply

and just as importantly to gain an idea of comparative prices



to keep my question simple id like to compare 1 inch boards but there are so many different ways of pricing / charging

1
one supplier sells in linear metres (price dependant on width)

2
another in linear feet (price dependant on width) = bexley hardwoods

3
SL Hardwoods are especially confusing

they have a specific price list based on specific widths

BUT in truth they sell random widths (which dont equate to the dimensions in the price list)

they actually price each board individually

4
im aware of other suppliers who price in cubic feet

5
although not particularly relevant the americans have a system of board feet, which seems to be a version of cubic feet




SO my question is

is there one system or method by which i can compare the different prices

hopefully it isnt cubic feet BECAUSE SL Hardwoods method seems to screw all the other methods up

[jfc]

I always price my work per lin M and get an exact price for every job , prices change all the time on hardwood .

[dirtydeeds]

until this afternoon when i went to SL Hardwoods thats how id been doing my price comparisons, converting evrything to lin metres

[engineerone]

try barnes branch in high wycombe, they at least talk english.

paul

[dirtydeeds]

its english that confuses me

i use metric by choice

so then i go and buy 4x2

and ask for four 3 metres and six 8 foots ;D

[jfc]

Im the same , got taught by an old boy but trained by new methods 3M of 4x2 ;D

[andy king]

I phoned a timber merchants once and asked how much 3x2 was.
'We're metric now sir, its 75x50'
OK, how much is 75x50 then?
The reply? '20 pence a foot' ;D ;D

[pj]

I use cubic ft. I buy only rough timber but if you do not mix different thicknesses, species, rough or machined it's the best guide as a general comparison IMHO tho others will disagree.
To start -

1 Cubic ft= 1728 cubic inches

Work out the volume of timber. Ie in your metric a 6"x1"x 3.6m is width x thickness x length

6"x1"x144" = 864 cubic inches

Now divide this by 1728 (cubic inches) to get the cubic ft result.

864 / 1728 = .5 or half a cubic ft.

I buy from a local tree surgeon now as I find the timber better behaved than some of the American stuff, tho with the trade off that it is more expensive. I'm not a big user so price is not that much of and issue as regards service. I can pick and choose boards at random and he would square edge them if I wanted.

The last prices for 1-1 1/4" waney edge boards were

French Oak - £28 cubic ft.
Irish Oak - £26cubic ft.
Elm - £26 cubic ft.
Sycamore - £22 cubic ft

Hope this post makes some sense.

Philip

[jaco]

Logs are sold and bought in cubic measure.

Where i buy, the stock is priced by the "piece" that you are taking. They will calculate length x width x thickness (caliper) x cube price for the specie, unplaned.

PAR will obviously cost more, but the calculation stays the same as it is based on the raw stock (what they paid for it) + machine & labour.

Makes no difference what calculation method is used by the timber supplier, it can all be worked back into a cube (m3) price.

(set up a small Excell spreadsheet)

Phil

[dirtydeeds]

thank you for your thoughts eveyone

[wizer]

Clear as mud

[mrgrimsdale]

dirtydeeds said:

before i start, id better say im a carpenter so i do know the differnce between PAR and sawn sizes, this isnt my problem

ive been buying "real" wood for only a few months in the form of boards that have been planed all round
snip

PAR is handy of course but you'd do far better to buy sawn. Then you have control over the finished thickness. With PAR the sizes are "nominal" which means that what you buy is say 6x1 inch boards nominal which will come out at about 6mm less when planed. This varies according to the quality of the sawn boards in the first place - if they are a bit rough or bendy then more might be removed to get them flat on both sides. It's still 6x1 nominal, or ex 6x1 even though it might vary down to 18 mm planed.
If you buy sawn you do a cutting list first and cut to length before you plane, saving straighter pieces for the longer lengths and vice versa. This way you may get planed thicknesses from say 1", up to 24mm, depending on the quality of the surface, especially as the sawn thickness varies and you can select as necessary.
Depending on the desired finished sizes, this can mean that you are losing a lot less timber and saving money, as well as being in control.
PAR often arrives bendy so you have to plane it anyway, so it's costing you even more per cubic measure.

cheers
Jacob

[jaco]

Oh, yes, just to add to the confusion ................

My current contract is a company that presses veneer onto PB & MDF, and when i buy veneer its ordered as 9' x 6' and the price is per M2!

[dirtydeeds]

thanks for the help

i converted the invoices to price per square metre, then with the database set them into nominal thickness order

result, i now understand the pricing regime

the prices including vat are

£62 a square metre for 1" boards up to 190mm wide and £72 for over 190 wide



secondly the 20mm finished is only 45p a square metre more expensive than 19mm

but its swings and roundabouts

Bexley hardwoods stock a small range of timbers but in much larger quantities, they are good on oak but they sell ash at the same price as oak