Startrite K210 HELP

[dalo218]

HI New to this forum . Ihave just aquired a rather sorry looking single phase startrite K210 universal machine im hoping some one may have a manual i could copy or just some experience they could share on using one of these , any help or advice would be gratefully recieved . Heres hoping dalo.

[dalo218]

Did i mention i got it on E bay. seems like a popular choice for tool buyers.

[mel]

hi dalo , welcome to the forum
is the machine like this one ??
cgi.ebay.co.uk/STARTRITE-K210-UNIVERSAL-WOODWORKING-MACHINE-240-VOLT_W0QQitemZ310005260783QQihZ021QQcategoryZ42938QQtcZphotoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

you could try this fella for an instruction manual

cgi.ebay.co.uk/Wadkin-Startrite-K210-K260-Universal-Machine-Manual_W0QQitemZ230197797813QQihZ013QQcategoryZ42938QQtcZphotoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

he has it as a copy

good luck
mel

[dalo218]

Mel. Thanks very much for the welcome and the information, yes my machine is identical to the one shown and i have e- ,mailed the fella with the manual so fingers crossed. Ill keep you posted on progress, as i said the machine is not in great condition but i hope to restore it to a servicable use, so any tips are much appreciated. At the moment it is still in my van awaiting a working party to help move it to my shed once there i can give it a good inspection. Any tips on polishing up those cast tables?.

Cheers Dalo.

[Scrit]

dalo218 said:

Any tips on polishing up those cast tables?.

Yes. Start with grade 0 or 2/0 steel wool and light oil to remove heavy rusting, then switch to a random orbit sander and P120 grit alox paper to buff down the rest (again oiled). Alox is friable and harder than rust, but a bit softer than cast iron, so used judiciously this will give you a good working finish unless the tables are deeply pitted. Once the rust is busted wipe off with a cloth soaked in meths or white spirits and wax with Liberon Lubo wax - god coat and then buffed back. Reapply the Lubo every month in winter to keep your tables rust free.

This all sounds very harsh, but it does work. Just remember to keep everything moving all the time and go lightly.

Scrit

[dalo218]

Thanks for the advice Scrit , the tables aren't to rusty as the guy i got it from regularly used the saw table .I have not heard of Alox before, is it easily available and does it come in different grades?

Got the machine in the shed this morning- pretty Heavy!!

Cheers Dalo.

[dalo218]

I've just realized Alox- Alumininum oxide now i feel a bit stupid D'OH

[dalo218]

Scrit
Hi ,you seem from other posts i have read to be very knowlegable about machines do you know the history of the startrites?

[Scrit]

dalo218 said:

Scrit.....
.....do you know the history of the Startrites?

A bit........

First a very rough and potted history of Startrite:

Startrite started up after WWII to make lightweight woodworking machines. By the early 1960s they were making engineering bandsaws and had branched-out into woodworking bandsaws and table saws. Their primary market was always training establishments and small businesses, so they never really made the big stuff. Along the way they picked-up some distributorships for other manufacturers and by the early to mid-1960s they were importing for SCM L'Invincibile and Inca of Switzerland. They continued to expand and by 1971 or so had become part of the 600 Group, an engineering conglomerate still operating today and whose portfolio includes Colchester Lathe, Harrison Machine Tool, Clausing, etc.

During the 1970s Startrite lost the SCM dealership as SCM expanded into heavier stuff and so Startrite sought-out lighter weight manufacturers to fill-in the gaps in its range (remember that at that time MiniMax and Samco weren't part of the SCM group). This search resulted in Harwi (wall saws, heavy table saws) and Robland machines being imported and re-badged "Startrite", a situation which continued until the demise of the original Startrite company in 1985/86. By that time 600 Group were in trouble and they went through a drastic downsizing of their operations which eventually included closing the massive Colchester Lathe site in Colchester and the disposal of any non-core businesses. They kept the Startrite engineering bandsaws (re-badged Clausing-Startrite) but sold the rest of the firm (woodworking bandsaws, woodworking saws and drilling machines) to Record in Sheffield. At that time neither Robland or Harwi elected to stay with the Startrite name and they set-up their own distributor chain in the UK. That therefore makes any "Startrite"-badged Robland machine one made between 1974/75 and 1985/86, so your machine is between 20 and 30 years old.

Now a bit about Robland:

Robland was started in 1972 by Robert Landuyt to make combination woodworking machines for the hobby/small trade market. Their original model was the K210 which combined a 10in table saw, sliding table, 30mm 2-speed (?) spindle moulder and a 8 x 6in (?) planer/thicknesser with an optional slot mortiser hung on the side (although rarely seen in the UK). The success of the K210 led to a larger machine with a 10in planer/thicknesser, the K260. In due course Robland "split-out" the component parts of the combination machines to give the TZ30 saw/spindle moulder combi, the T30 spindle moulder, the SD260 10 x 7in planer/thicknesser and the SD310 12 x 7in planer thicknesser. These formed the backbone of sales between about 1981 and the end of the Startrite era. Of course Robland went on to produce a second generation of combination machine (the X310/NX310), then a family of low-cost panel saws (the Z250/Z320 range) before moving into bigger industrial machines in more recent years. Their expansion has also seen the acquisition of the Knapp marque with production of that brand now being done in Belgium.

My own recollection of the K210/K260 was that the table saw rise and fall was accomplished by twisting the handle and pivoting it up or down before twisting to lock at the right height. Similarly the tilt mechanism was rather simple, and I reckon that those two things will potentially be a source of frustration. The planer/thicknessers almost all incorporate an aluminium cutter block with slotted blades adjusted using a pair of special "shouldered" jack screws (M10 x 1.0mm thread if my memory serves me right). Needless to say the manufacturer no longer supports these machine, although those jack screws are about the only thing you can't get hold of easily - cutters are still available from industrial tooling firms, the drive belts are all standard V-belts (although some of the pulley wheels are decidedly odd in method of attachment), the bearings are off the shelf (or at least on the planers they are) and all the electrical components can be swapped out for standard stuff, so keeping the machine running shouldn't pose any undue problems

A tip about suppliers. If you find it difficult to get hold of replacement planer blades you might like to try Allwood in Maldon (probably the nearest machinery dealer to you). They aren't Robland specialists, but as a woodworking machinery dealer they should at least be able to supply the replacement cutters. If they can't then I'd recommend contacting NLS in London - as specialist saw and cutter manufacturers and suppliers they will be able to help

As a point of interest there's a tour of the Robland factory (in 1998) here

Good luck with your purchase, and if you have any problems setting up the planer/thicknesser then just ask - I use to have an SD310 and I think I can still remember what to do

Scrit

[dalo218]

Wow Thats a bit!! Thanks for the info i was guessing the machine was roughly that vintage, the only other info i had was from the 'collins complete wood working manual 'a great book ive had for years, it shows a startrite super 260 universal.
Ill keep you up to date with progress as i havent had a lot of time and no manual as yet although i think i may have got lucky following up Mels tip. the one thing i have noticed is the rubber roller on the thicknesser outfeed is very worn any info on replacements?
Thanks again Jason.

[Scrit]

dalo218 said:

The one thing i have noticed is the rubber roller on the thicknesser outfeed is very worn any info on replacements?

Look in Yellow Pages for a firm who can recoat printing rollers. Printing presses use rubber-coated rollers in the inking system (lots of them) and these rollers all wear out and need to be recoated periodically, hence a firm which can do that should be able to handle your rollers, despite a possible difference in Shore hardness. If you really can't find one locally I'll give you someone up here in the North West

Another possibility might be to try ALTSaws, who are a useful source of parts for older Startrite machines built in Gillingham (i.e. the 3xx and 5xx series bandsaws and TA/SP series of table saws). I don't know if they do anything for the badged Robland machines, but it has got to be worth a phone call to find out

Scrit

[dalo218]

Thanks again Scrit. Over Christmas i intend to give machine a good going over and list all parts that need replacing or are missing ,any i get stuck on ill ask your advice.

Jason

[rick]

I've been running a K210 for 22 yrs. I'm just experiencing dryness in the Planer bearings so I would advise WD40 in to all the 'sealed ' bearings. Light oil on the drive chain also. If the saw tilt is stiff spray in some dry film silicon lubricant. Putting the tilt at 45 gives access. It's time I found spare drive belts. These are available. Hope you've got it running. Mine has paid for its self many times over.
Rick

[dom]

Hi Rick, welcome to the forum

[Telos]

Err, I wouldn't recommend WD40 at all for use on bearings. Certainly not on anything critical (read expensive to replace). It's not a lube oil and will break down any oil/grease left in the bearing. It might appear to work at first but it attracts dirt and will eventually destroy the bearing surface.

[modernist]

I've just sold my K260 of twenty years on this very forum. I would echo most of the comments and all the Robland machines are at the upper end of entry level, given the price, for a serious machine capable of accurate work. It is good to have separate motors which was a luxury not enjoyed by all the machines of the time as are the cast iron tables.

The saw rise and fall and tilt are very basic and fine for most work but accurate setting for trenching etc is a bit of an art!

If you stall the planer the belt tends to ride over and "saw" through the saw belt or maybe the other way around. I can't remember now.

Anyway best of luck with the machine and we look forward to some work in progres pics.

Brian

[rick]

In reply to Telos. Sorry to go on about the bearings but one of mine seazed up from dryness not wear. The bearings are sealed and WD40 is an effective penetrating fluid. The alchohol evaporates off. Tests at Bham University Mech Eng proved it to be a very effective LIGHT lubricant that did not attract dirt. Light machine oil may penetrate the bearing if the machine is put on its side. A new bearing is due when I can dismantle and get the parts to a press.
Rick

[Telos]

Rick, Glad I didn't get my degree from Birmingham then ;D

If your bearing died because of dryness then that would be a classic example of why WD40 should not be used as that is exactly the long term effect it can have on bearings. It dissolves oil and penetrates down to the metal surface of the bearing, disrupting the oil film interface that should separate the bearing from the rolling surfaces. If your bearing was dry then the lube has been washed out!

I'm sorry to go on about this as well, but really WD40 is NOT a lube oil!! (You said yourself it is a penetrating fluid.) Bearings can be cleaned with WD40, and short term the bearing may appear to run smoother, but an appropriate bearing oil or grease must be reapplied after all traces of WD40 have been removed.

It has only minor, temporary, lube properties which almost certainly breakdown to produce varnish or gum residues. Certainly not something a modern spec bearing oil will do.

The type of oil or grease a bearing requires isn't a random option but specified by design which is why most are sealed for life.

Taken from the WD40 FAQ:

WD-40 cleans/degreases, penetrates to loosen up stuck parts, prevents corrosion and is a light lubricant.

[dalo218]

Thanks again to everyone who has replied to my thread. Here is an update on progress , i have taken the machine apart to its larger component pieces mainly to clean away years of compacted dust and to be able to inspect it s inner workings, I have found the following problems , firstly the motor for the spindle moulder had been diconnected and my local rewind company reckons on £350.00 to repair [they returned it as a box of bits] but they can supply a replacement for £220.00 so im not sure what to do on that one as i have not used a spindle before and you do hear some horror stories about them. Secondly one of the bearings on the infeed roller was broken and although i have purchased a replacement i have not fitted it yet . The rubber on the out feed roller is shot and is going to be replaced by a firm in bristol which i found on the web, although thats another £70 quid. Apart from these defects and the need for a serious clean and probably a coat of paint it seems OK , but on to the missing parts these are : missing crown guard assembly and follower ,insert rings for spindle apperture ,shaw guards for spindle. and fixing for planer fence. I think that is all ,It does have the morticing attachment but no bits for it , it also has some spindle blocks but they dont have the limiters that i have read about so if i get it going i think i might invest in a new cutter block. I did get a manual from E Bay {cheers Mel]
Well thats all its not all doom and gloom byt i was hoping to be wood working and not engineering ill keep you posted on progress and maybe even the odd pic , any comments are gratefully received, especially from anyone who has or is using one of these machines .

Dalo

[dalo218]

PS before i had read about the WD 40 debate i had already freed off my bearings with the stuff as it is still in bits is ther another lube i can apply to save them?

Dalo

[engineerone]

what you need is a non silicon based grease.

try one of the products produced by holts or similar,
in a spray can. a high speed grease.

a lot depends on the bearings. check with the local bearing
dealer and see what they recommend.

the old motor bike trick of dumping a ton of grease in a bucket, and heating same then dumping bearings therein is always a good one to ensure the grease gets into the bearing properly.

have you eyeballed the cases and shafts of the bearings to ensure they are clean and not scratched??

don't waste time on them if they are, buy new, and preferably sealed ones.
paul

[dalo218]

Im Back i know you won,t have missed me but it has been 10 long months and that bloody machine is still not up and running!
I have stripped it down cleaned replaced missing bits and almost re-assembled it. It is resplendent in a new paint job ( John Deere green doesn't look bad really.) but i have yet to fire it up ready to spend long winter evenings escaping the kids making stuff in the shed.
Any how to the point the adjusting screws for the planer cutting block appear to be missing and having read Scrits comments from before i was hoping for some help finding replacements. im not even sure i know what a shouldered jack screw looks like.
Any help or comments gratefully recieved.