French doors WIP

[jfc]

Time to start glue up

I am stapleing the glazing bars together so i can pick them up and check that everything lines up on both sides and on my template . Once the glue has gone off i will drill through and insert a dowel . I did think of making a dowel jig but i would have to make a couple to allow for the diamonds so this seemed a simpler way to me .

[jfc]

Well the dowels actually worked I wasnt sure it was going to but it was the only way i could thing of checking eveything was spot on during glue up .

[engineerone]

if you keep this up, they might let you keep the day job ;D

looking good, well done

paul

[simuk]

Yep well done that man, fine job

Simon

[gazza]

Great job !
Turned out really well Jason
I was just re-reading this again, I find it strange that you dont plane you own timber
Surely it would pay you to buy a decent planer and do your own.
How much extra are you paying for your timber to be machined for you ?
Quite a bit probably.
Cheers,
Gazza.

[jfc]

I have looked into it a few times and decided it wasnt worth the hassle . On a job like this i may save £50 , even if it was £100 it still wouldnt be worth the hassle of a day doing it and getting rid of the shavings . Hansons , my local timber yard has a good machinest that can do a far better job than me and i have the option of rejecting the timber . Although i do take the bent bits if i can use them in shorter parts . If you know better then please tell as i'm all for saving on outlay .

[Keith]

Jason, I'm with you on this, I never buy sawn timber, except for joists and even that comes planed these days! ;D

[mrgrimsdale]

I never buy planed stuff.
There's a whole load of reasons why, mainly to do with quality; a lot of selecting goes on before planing.
Also economy - there is a hidden cost in that timber yard stuff is always planed thinner than you can do it yourself, because you cut to length first from bits you've selected according to end use. Also you can't get the thicknesses you need so you have to go up a size and bring it down.
So frinstance I've just done a great load of 22mm glazing bars, which I could get from 25mm sawn boards. But nominal 25mm planed boards would be 18mm. I would have had to buy nominal 38mm - finished at 29 ish, and then reduce it again - a lot more expensive and little time saved.
Some yards might have 32mm nominal which could give you 25 ish planed, so I would have to buy 25% more timber than I want (at 38 that'd be 50% ), and pay for it to be planed, and then have to plane it again myself.
Also I keep the sawdust and burn it in a multifuel stove.
And another big economy is to order by phone according to grade, and have it delivered. In the old days I could be spending half a day in the timber yard sorting through stuff, which had probably already been sorted by previous customers.

Sawn timber gives advantages all round.

cheers
Jacob

[andy]

Sept 8, 2008 8:03:00 GMT mrgrimsdale said:

I never buy planed stuff.......

You will be telling us next you have started growing your own trees ;D

[mrgrimsdale]

Sept 8, 2008 11:44:13 GMT andy said:

Sept 8, 2008 8:03:00 GMT mrgrimsdale said:

I never buy planed stuff.......

You will be telling us next you have started growing your own trees ;D

Would love to. There are those that do; coppicing for furniture, turning or simpler green woodwork etc.
BTW buying sawn boards is normal practice. PAR is for DIYers, odd jobbers without workshops, or joiners in a hurry ;D

cheers
Jacob

[simuk]

I tend to do both, but there have been occasions, when i have bought it in par, had it delivered and its turned out to be a load of rubbish,
so now if i don't pick it myself i make sure that i order in a lot earlier in case it has to go back.

Simon

[jfc]

I see your point about sawn timber Jacob and in a way i do buy sawn timber i just get the timber yard to machine it for me . You have to remember i work from a shed in a built up area . Noise is my biggest concern and a planer gives off that high pitched router noise you love so much ;D
If i order timber and the machinest knows its for me he will pick the best stuff to mill up . There is no point him doing anything else because i wont buy it . I know i am lucky that i get that kind of service from the timber yard but its in both our interests as i keep going back there and they get the sales .
They also know that i will take the timber if i can use it for shorter parts so i dont just reject it without thinking where i could use certain peices .

[mrgrimsdale]

Sounds OK getting a personal service! It's the stuff off the racks which is to be avoided.

I did sound tests here when we moved in. High pitched noises don't carry; things which sound noisy in the workshop may be hardly noticeable outside if you are far enough away. Tested thicknesser for noise - what carried furthest was the sound of bits of wood thumping on to the floor as they came through. The machine itself no prob, even a nasty noisy little router, at a distance!

cheers
Jacob

[jfc]

Now i know they way i have constructed the glazing bars works its time to speed it up for the other three doors .


I used the axminster trad sash bar cutter for the main profile so this is the counter profile for it .







This is the first time i have used the sliding table on the spindle moulder so in true JFC style i was bricking it ;D
The sled i made up to hold the glazing bar kept my fingers away from the cutter but i could see no way of gaurding the block without restricting the sled . Any ideas ?



And then more of the same .......

[lynx]

false fence attached to the original and push the cutter through

[simuk]

Sept 8, 2008 17:57:05 GMT lynx said:

false fence attached to the original and push the cutter through

Wouldnt that just stop breakout?

[lynx]

means only the needed projecting cutter is exposed, not the whole block.

it's how i would use a spindle even if only a small rebate is being machined.

[simuk]

Sept 8, 2008 18:11:45 GMT lynx said:

means only the needed projecting cutter is exposed, not the whole block.

it's how i would use a spindle even if only a small rebate is being machined.

I pretty much do the same thing, just thought it was preventing breakout, but you explanation makes sense

[jfc]

Yeah Scrit keeps telling me to do that ......... no flippin chance !
I'd rather do it this way and make sure my fingers are out of the way rather than push a lump of timber into the block

[lynx]

it fills your pants the first time, but better than getting your hand pulled in. I've seen it mate, not a nice sight.

[gazza]

Sept 7, 2008 22:33:16 GMT jfc said:

If you know better then please tell as i'm all for saving on outlay .

Jacob has pretty well summed it up with his reasoning ;D

Straight and square timber is a must
Having your own planer means that every piece of timber can become just that with a few passes.
As Jacob says, cut to length first, you can plane it to whatever dimensions you need, with very little waste.

As you say Jason, you are basically buying sawn, just getting the yard to dimension it for you.

So why then do you run it through the spindle moulder ?? Could the yard not do that for you as well ??

Sorry if that sounds cheeky or ignorant (its not meant to)

You can machine it to whatever profile you want with a spindle, similar to what you can do with a planer

Any white wood (pine) shavings i have, i sell to horsey people for a tenner a bag ;D (helps keep the lights on )

I work from a decent size garage in a built up area as well, with the door closed the noise is barely noticeable, so the neighbours tell me.

Cheers,
Gazza.

[jfc]

I run the timber through the moulder my self because i may want a few profiles out of the stock . Getting the yard to do that would bump the price right up where as having them PAR it doesnt . ...... well i dont think it does , maybe someone has an unsorted redwood sawn price for me to compare ? Per lin M .

[mrgrimsdale]

False fence easier than it looks. You fix it to your existing fence, fixed up well clear in front of the cutter (set up to the right height), then loosen the fence hold-down screws just enough to allow you to swing the whole thing slowly into the cutter.
MDF ideal - one of the few thing its any good for! It's soft as sh*t cardboard so it won't snatch at all ;D

cheers
Jacob
PS redwood prices sawn/planed per metre: it's not that simple a difference. If you get into doing all your own planing there are all sorts of other economies, and ways of improving quality through careful selection. It's a different approach.
PPS and yards don't PAR unsorted (I think), They use Vths etc

[jfc]

My yard does PAR unsorted but then they have thier own joinery section . They sell me thier unsorted .
Like you say there are many factors to machining your own sawn and i dont have the time or space to save what is really very little money . I have seen a turn around in earnings since i bought the spindle moulder and i dont think investing in a decent planer thicknesser would show those results . I would rather buy another spindle moulder .

[mrgrimsdale]

Sept 8, 2008 20:50:57 GMT jfc said:

My yard does PAR unsorted but then they have thier own joinery section . They sell me thier unsorted .
Like you say there are many factors to machining your own sawn and i dont have the time or space to save what is really very little money . I have seen a turn around in earnings since i bought the spindle moulder and i dont think investing in a decent planer thicknesser would show those results . I would rather buy another spindle moulder .

Aha! That explains it - you haven't actually got a planer/thicknesser!
I'd put it on your list straightaway. It will improve your productivity, quality and reduce costs in more ways than you can imagine. It wll give you so much more control.
Not that noisy either, away from the machine.
As well as sound checks (see above) I did a brief excursion around local small woodwork shops to see how they coped with noise in or near residential areas - and not one of them had ever had any complaints.

cheers
Jacob