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Post by sainty on Sept 11, 2008 20:50:27 GMT
What tooling do you use to make shaker style doors? The spindle knives available off the shelf don't seem to match the thicknesses of panel materials available e.g. veneered 9mm mdf is too tight in a 10mm groove, - maybe i should be using different thickness panel? Does an 6mm veneered panel fit nicely in a 8mm slot? Using an adjustable groover seems like a bit of a faff in terms of getting the 'tenon' to match the groove.
rgds
Sainty
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Sept 11, 2008 20:59:54 GMT
What tooling do you use to make shaker style doors? The spindle knives available off the shelf don't seem to match the thicknesses of panel materials available e.g. veneered 9mm mdf is too tight in a 10mm groove, - maybe i should be using different thickness panel? Does an 6mm veneered panel fit nicely in a 8mm slot? Using an adjustable groover seems like a bit of a faff in terms of getting the 'tenon' to match the groove. rgds Sainty Shakers didn't use mdf so you are f***d to start with! What is a shaker style door anyway? Most classic shaker stuff is normal trad joinery of the age but a bit minimalist. Normal panel construction but without mouldings? They'd have fielded the panels inside in the normal way I guess, so the thickness would be independent of the slot. Panels fielded with a jack plane BTW. Nope. 2mm out (less a gnats whotsit). Shakers didn't do veneer either. Back to the drawing board! cheers Jacob |
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Post by jonnyd on Sept 11, 2008 21:09:54 GMT
Hi i use an adjustable groover on the spindle and i set this to the panel thickness and cut about an 18mm groove. I cut the tenons on the tenoner which is quick and accurate.
jon
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Post by sainty on Sept 11, 2008 21:13:35 GMT
I haven't got a tenoner, which is why its a bit of a faff to use a adjustable groover.
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Post by jonnyd on Sept 11, 2008 21:35:22 GMT
You could set up a couple of blocks on the spindle to cut the tenons shimming it out to the panel thickness. Maybe a bit of a faff unless you have lots of doors to make.
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Post by sainty on Sept 11, 2008 21:39:46 GMT
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Post by sainty on Sept 11, 2008 21:42:11 GMT
You could set up a couple of blocks on the spindle to cut the tenons shimming it out to the panel thickness. Maybe a bit of a faff unless you have lots of doors to make. most things are a faff unless you have a lot to do ;D |
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Post by jonnyd on Sept 11, 2008 21:47:05 GMT
The omas tooling should do the trick. I prefer to use an adjustable groover with disposable cutters and spurs rather than the wobble saw as it gives a better finish although it is more money.
jon
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Post by jasonb on Sept 12, 2008 7:07:34 GMT
I use an omas wobble saw and make loose tennons from the panel material. HSS knives won't last long in MDF whatever you go with get TCT.  Jason |
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Post by tusses on Sept 12, 2008 8:12:10 GMT
I'm with Jacob on this one
Shaker style and vaneered MDF are a contradiction IMHO.
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Post by jfc on Sept 12, 2008 9:19:40 GMT
So would machining the parts or sharpening you tools on anything other than an oil stone  Those tenon heads are 100 odd pounds each , not per pair . I know because i've just bought some . |
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Sept 12, 2008 9:48:52 GMT
I was a bit mystified by mdf with "tenons" (and mortices I presume). Isn't the whole point of mdf is that its a sheet so you can make doors etc in one piece. What's the point in cutting it up and then machining and joining it back together again?
They are doing the same on the fitted wardrobe thread!
Plus it's not strong so M&Ts not a good idea.
Why not just cut out a door size piece and then rout out for false panels?
Or why not use it flat and plain? If you want panels why not use wood?
cheers
Jacob
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Post by engineerone on Sept 12, 2008 9:50:03 GMT
it is wrong to suggest that the shakers would not have used mdf. unless you have studied them at all you must not ascribe to them the same prejudices that you may or may not have. the essence of shaker style was not to exult rather to thank for the beauty that was around. however had a stable wood been freely available to them it is pretty likely they would have used it. it would have given them more time for their silent praying which gave them the name shakers. paul  |
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Sept 12, 2008 9:59:18 GMT
it is wrong to suggest that the shakers would not have used mdf. ;D ;D And Chippendale would have used it too! I guess Hepplewhite would have gone for wood effect MFC - so much nicer than mahogany. Anyway it's fact - they didn't use it.Except mdf isn't stable, and it isn't really wood. Nearer to cardboard in fact "Shakers" so called because of the mad shaking dances they used to do. Orgasmic by some accounts  Sex was not permitted. cheers Jacob |
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Post by jake on Sept 12, 2008 10:06:55 GMT
So would machining the parts or sharpening you tools on anything other than an oil stone If you aren't a member of the weird religious sect, you're a shaker-faker from the off. |
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Post by sainty on Sept 12, 2008 10:23:12 GMT
well jacob, you seem to have turned my innocent question on its head, cheers for that:) . To avoid any confusion similar to the confusion that jacob (often) experiences, i was talking about the shaker style of door and how people (not necessarily shakers) construct them now. i didn't want a history lesson although i understand that it's good to know the origin of these things! Thanks to all those who responded to the original question. To be honest sometimes its nice to have the grumpy old man in the corner that questions everything that everyone does, it keps you on your toes.  rgds Stu |
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Sept 12, 2008 10:23:28 GMT
So would machining the parts or sharpening you tools on anything other than an oil stone If you aren't a member of the weird religious sect, you're a shaker-faker from the off. Yebbut there's good faking and bad faking. You couldn't pass off mdf as shaker. ;D |
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Sept 12, 2008 10:59:47 GMT
well jacob, you seem to have turned my innocent question on its head, cheers for that:) . To avoid any confusion similar to the confusion that jacob (often) experiences, i was talking about the shaker style of door and how people (not necessarily shakers) construct them now. Shaker construction is pretty straightforward conventional joinery, done now in much the same way as it was done then. So to ask how, is to ask how do you do ordinary joinery if you see what I mean. No special tooling required. Shaker style is something else.cheers Jacob |
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Post by engineerone on Sept 12, 2008 11:00:41 GMT
the important thing is the word "STYLE" ;D paul |
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Post by tusses on Sept 12, 2008 13:38:22 GMT
doesn't 'stye' imply similar methods and materials ?
Shakers AFAIK used the best materials and tools available to produce simple furniture without unfunctional beauty (fancy bits ! ), that would last as long as posible.
IMHO they wouldn't have used MDF.
now you could make MDF 'look like' shaker which could be taken as shaker 'style' - depends who you are selling to I guess !
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Post by sainty on Sept 12, 2008 13:59:53 GMT
so i asked about modern construction of the shaker style if you see what I mean
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Post by jasonb on Sept 12, 2008 15:15:03 GMT
To most people "shaker style" refers to a flat panelled door which is what I took the question to be refering to. Reading it again I see that you may have been talking solid timber frame with veneered MDF panel not MDF throughout. I would still groove the same but either use M&T on the frames or even double biscuits (stopped grove on styles)if the frame is say 25mm fin and the doors are not too large. It all depends on what price you are aiming at and what the client wants to pay. Jason Would the shakers have made boxes if Tupaware was available  |
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simuk
Full Member
Posts: 111
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Post by simuk on Sept 12, 2008 16:19:37 GMT
Hey Sainty , I made these using an omas adjustable groover on the spindle moulder  The panels are veneered mdf Simon |
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Post by jfc on Sept 12, 2008 18:14:48 GMT
Its all down to cost mate . I supply builders and site carpenters with cupboard doors at £40 per door . I can get quite a few 75mm rips out of an 18mm sheet of mdf run it through the spindle and scribe joint them with a 6mm mdf panel in them . Its a nice little earner with little material outlay and little work once you have the tooling .
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Post by engineerone on Sept 12, 2008 18:26:09 GMT
it is a mistake to consider that the shakers used the best woods and tools around. they were a poor community, but since they were farmers in a still relatively un exploited country so they had access to quite a large forest of "old growth" wood. but as for their tools many were made by them. it is important to remember that much of the magic of shaker is it was built in furniture at a time when that was unusual, but until probably after the second world war, it was unknown over here, and to most people in the USA too i think. simple elegance can be replicated in any material and painting proper wood still seems to me to be a complete waste of time and effort of sorting decent wood out, so why not use a processed product? paul |
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Sex was not permitted.
