Marketing

[sainty]

Given the current economic climate and with the outlook not looking too rosy what are you doing to keep the work coming in?

I know that things are getting tight for me so I'm going to try and be prepared and drum up some interest before the order book runs dry! I am going to make sure that I am listed with all the free directories. I've just set up google maps to go with my (very poor, 0 responses) adwords. I'm thinking of getting the van signwritten and also looking at the local free papers. Just got to decide what to do.

Any one else got a plan?

Rgds

Stu

[Dave S]

Not a direct answer to your questions, but hopefully these are constructive and pertainant comments...

On your website welcome page, you mention hardwood windows and doors, staircases and bespoke handmade kitchens. On your Services page you mention several more items, yet most of these are absent from your portfolio.

Were I in the market for a bespoke handmade kitchen, for example, I think I might suspect that they are a bit of a sideline for you rather than a core part of you business. I might therefore be less inclined to make an enquiry if there are competitors who appear to specialise in kitchens.

Alternatively, had I not read the About Us page, I might suspect you to be a recently established business.

Overall, you would be more likely to get an enquiry from me if I could see more examples of your work.

Of course, what's on the website is irrelevant if you don't have visitors - perhaps you need to rethink your adwords? I just googled on 'bespoke kitchen hampshire'. There are 17 sponsored links and your site doesn't appear in the top ten - nor does it appear on the first 4 pages of hits.

Some analysis of your site stats might help - is your site getting many hits and which pages are being viewed and for how long? What is your conversion rate (proportion of visits which result in an enquiry)?

Hopefully food for thought..

Dave

[lynx]

you also need to have you company reg number clear on the website. I would also change the flash header into to a fix jpep on each other page apart from the home page.

[jfc]

You need to get your name out there matey , get your cards in the timber yards and iron mongary shops . Places where people are going to get materials for building work . I get loads of work from the timber yard where people have gone in to buy a new window and find they cant buy it off the shelf . It helps if you are mates with the lads in the yard as they are the ones that recommend you . Picking up a bag of chips on your way into the timber yard usually has them crowding around you ;D

[paulchapman]

Stu,

I just had a look at your website as well. It's a nice looking site but the fact that there are so few pictures of your work would put me off contacting you if I needed some work done.

Going to the trouble of having a nice website and listing all the work you do, but then having so few pictures, would make me wonder whether you could do all the work you claim. If you don't have any pictures of past work then I would go back and take some and get them up on the site.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Paul

[sainty]

Thanks guys.

Dave, thanks for that. It's funny, whenever I have shown anyone my website I get the usual "that's nice" type response from friends and family and I was quite happy. Its great to hear objective comments and I will look at what you said. The sites been live since 7/7/8 and I've had 203 visitors, and 3 enquiries. Of those 203, 51 have come from google, and I reckon that about 30 of them are people looking for a joiner. I was hoping to get more from it but I was going to give it 3 months before I made any changes to see how it went. I'll have a closer look at the site stats to see if I can pull out any more info. I plan to get more photos on there as and when the work comes in, as I don't have photos of the older stuff.

Lynx, really? Is that a requirement? Wonder what else its missing? I know what you mean about the flash header on the back pages we did think about that one but decided to keep it in for reasons that I cant remember.

Jfc - all good advice, I am a bit shy with the cards. I'll have to start handing them out to everyone.

There's lots of flats in Southampton, I thought about doing a leaflet drop offering "built-in" cupboards as a speciality as my experience is that flats are pretty short of storage, just an idea!

Thanks

Stu

[jfc]

I'm not sure built ins are a good idea , like you say things arnt looking to good so people are watching thier pennies . This time of year people are looking at repairing or replacing windows and doors as the cold weather is on the way . Just my 2p worth .

[mrgrimsdale]

Yes to van sign writing - as long as you give the right message short and simple.
"We are a joinery company" should this read "I am a joiner" - best to tell simple story
No to 'Spaces' as a trade name - it doesn't convey anything much. Could imply landscape gardener, interior designer, or many things. Whats wrong with trading under your own name?
No to 'bespoke', it's pretentious and could put people off. Doesn't mean a lot either; we all do 'bespoke'.
'Take your time to browse the website' - we will ta very much, if it's interesting. We don't need an invitation!
Dump the huge headings and flash on each web page. Too much space taken up; you have to scroll down to read the text. Photos of ordinary circ saw and some old chisels are much less interesting to your clients than your portfolio - which is tucked away out of sight. Should be up-front with a lot more stuff including text "this is a staircase built from etc, to solve such and such problem etc".
Most important thing IMHO about a website is that it should be a resource, which people will find interesting. The more visitors the more clients, even if it's only one in a thousand. You could include text about the trade and interesting links - to this group even!

cheers
Jacob

PS and I 'd put your name and contact details on every page. Not a form though - puts people off and you have an email link anyway.

[paulchapman]

Sept 23, 2008 16:58:42 GMT mrgrimsdale said:

You could include text about the trade and interesting links - to this group even!

Blimey, Jacob, he wants to attract customers, not scare 'em off ;D

[mrgrimsdale]

Sept 23, 2008 17:10:08 GMT paulchapman said:

Sept 23, 2008 16:58:42 GMT mrgrimsdale said:

You could include text about the trade and interesting links - to this group even!

Blimey, Jacob, he wants to attract customers, not scare 'em off ;D

Yes you are right! Not a good idea. Forget that one ;D

[jfc]

Whats wrong with us lot then
Yeah your right , not a good idea ;D

[sainty]

Thanks again, I appreciate all the comments. I didn't mean this thread to focus on me specifically, rather a general comment on what everyone was doing to keep the order book full given the state of the market. The bank manager isn't knocking down the door yet! That said, I'm not going to turn down free advice! ;D

Sept 23, 2008 16:58:42 GMT mrgrimsdale said:

Yes to van sign writing - as long as you give the right message short and simple.
"We are a joinery company" should this read "I am a joiner" - best to tell simple story

Sept 23, 2008 16:58:42 GMT mrgrimsdale said:

I was thinking along those lines, just the logo and some contact details, nothing fancy.

Sept 23, 2008 16:58:42 GMT mrgrimsdale said:

No to 'Spaces' as a trade name - it doesn't convey anything much. Could imply landscape gardener, interior designer, or many things. Whats wrong with trading under your own name?
No to 'bespoke', it's pretentious and could put people off. Doesn't mean a lot either; we all do 'bespoke'.

The names stays I'm afraid, its how I'm known. As for using my own name - that's probably more confusing! You need to think of "bespoke" in terms of the client. We know that we are bespoke but the client wants to feel like they are getting something special, bespoke helps to push that image (well maybe!)

Sept 23, 2008 16:58:42 GMT mrgrimsdale said:

'Take your time to browse the website' - we will ta very much, if it's interesting. We don't need an invitation!
Dump the huge headings and flash on each web page. Too much space taken up; you have to scroll down to read the text. Photos of ordinary circ saw and some old chisels are much less interesting to your clients than your portfolio - which is tucked away out of sight. Should be up-front with a lot more stuff including text "this is a staircase built from etc, to solve such and such problem etc".
Most important thing IMHO about a website is that it should be a resource, which people will find interesting. The more visitors the more clients, even if it's only one in a thousand. You could include text about the trade and interesting links - to this group even!

cheers
Jacob

PS and I 'd put your name and contact details on every page. Not a form though - puts people off and you have an email link anyway.

I was actually browsing your website the other day, Jacob. I like the content (although the "You don't know what you've got 'till it's gone, They paved paradise and put up a parking lot. Joni Mitchell" quote made me laugh!) and was thinking of adding something similar to mine, although perhaps in slightly less detail. I think that content also plays quite a big part in getting you up the google rankings.

Thanks for your input.

rgds

Stu GARDINER or Gardiner Joinery??!!??!?

[jfc]

Stu , why not put some pictures of your workshop in your portfolio untill you have more work to put in there . When i look at a website i go straight to the portfolio , i'm not interested in what the company have to say about themselves .

[sainty]

Sept 23, 2008 19:05:55 GMT jfc said:

Stu , why not put some pictures of your workshop in your portfolio untill you have more work to put in there . When i look at a website i go straight to the portfolio , i'm not interested in what the company have to say about themselves .

Seems like a plan! Maybe I'll put some photos of me on there, I'll be beating 'em off with a sh*tty stick!

rgds

Stu

[jfc]

As for what others are doing , well erm , nothing . I'm turning work away right now . In fact i turned down two sash windows and a turning job today because they wanted them for the end of the week

[engineerone]

having some knowledge of southampton as a market place, since my mates kid makes sash windows and doors not too far away, and before he got that job had been searching for work in the area. it was not that easy to find.

i do not agree with the idea of painting your van, since there are a lot of scallywags in soton, and it is an invitation to nick your tools.

also you need to remember that there are a lot of poles in soton many of whom are quite prepared to work more cheaply than we are. some are very good, and some are pretty crap, just like english workers but their overheads tend to be lower so they charge less.

soton being a uni town has lots of cheap housing in the centre, whilst further out, a lot of nice big houses, you need to get both a reputation, and known.

i think jason's idea about business cards is a good one, and making mates with certain people, like guys in the wood yard,
give them a kick back if the work can be identified back to them.

certainly though if you have a web site, and so far i have not looked, you must have fewer words, and more photos particularly of your work, small or big. pictures of your workshop with work going on are also useful, because it gives people more faith in your ability. and frankly we are all lazy so look for an instant message, and do not want to go through the waffle.

do not put prices on your site, and ensure that you charge properly and get a deposit.

marketing is not to my mind what you should be doing, you should be SELLING, the two are different. marketing may well bring you lots of contacts, but few sales whilst selling means making more effort to turn contacts into orders.

paul

[Dave S]

Sept 23, 2008 18:58:07 GMT sainty said:

Thanks again, I appreciate all the comments. I didn't mean this thread to focus on me specifically, rather a general comment on what everyone was doing to keep the order book full given the state of the market. The bank manager isn't knocking down the door yet! That said, I'm not going to turn down free advice! ;D

Most of it would be relevant for many other readers too, so in a sense you are a useful case study!! ;D

It is a legal requirement for Limited Companies to display their reg number and registered address on the website - this was brought in in 2007 IIRC.

As to comments from friends and colleagues about your website - actually their comments are not necessarily going to be useful since they are neither objective nor are they, in many cases, typical of your potential customers.

Of course that also goes for us lot - for a start we are all either trade or hobby woodworkers and hence have a different perspective than your average potential customer. Many of us would also not have the kind of funds availabe to commission a bespoke kitchen, either.

I would say that 3 enquiries from an estimated 30 visits from people wanting a joiner is rather low and you should be looking to increase that conversion rate significantly.

You website should, however, be just one part of the marketing strategy - after all a good website is of limited use if potential customers don't use the internet much.

Dave

[engineerone]

ok have checked out your website.

silly things, for instance the photograph with the radiator,
what are you selling in this one??? why not put some words
with the pictures???

i hate the word bespoke, in modern usage, except for tailoring.
just checked my large dictionary, and it really does not mean what people take it to mean. it relates to tailoring or ordering in advance, which of course you have to do with tailoring, and do not necessarily have the materials to hand.

so bespoke does not mean hand made in the way that people take it to mean, so using it incorrectly does not enhance your
reputation. hand made, hand finished, etc are i fell more effective and more honest. and frankly you cannot be bespoke when doing second fix.

so if you want better paid and more interesting work, then you have to specialise more, and show more items in the web site.

how about doing some photos with your local paper or the hampshire magazine, this helps them and you.??

paul

[simuk]

Hey Sainty,

What i do when it comes to marketing,
I hand my cards out to as many people as i can, i put them up in the cafes. leave them at the hairdressers, leave them at the timber yard, Glaziers, Flooring companies . where ever i can basically. I swap my cards with other tradesman i have worked with the past, i hand out theres they hand out mine.
I think so much of this business is not what you no but who you no. I always make a point of keeping other tradesman's numbers so i can ring around find out whats happening, who paying the best rates where the work is at, obviously better closer to home, don't wanna end up over your way ;D.

You don't say what type of work you are after, i mainly do sub - contract work, So i look in the construction news & the contracts journal to see what contracts are coming up. and then give the main contractor who wins it a call let him no what i do & how i can benefit him.

If i have nothing on at all i will visit the sites, ring up jobs being advertised and ask for price work.

I have a company website where punters can see what i do, which helps reassure them that you can do what you say you can, I agree with JFC put photos of your workshop on you site so they can see your a genuine established business. i think the building industry has got such a bad name that punters want to be reassured

I have taught my partner a how to market my business on the phone, and when things a get a bit slow she rings around getting contact numbers for heads of departments, who spend money, like clerk of the works, and so on.

I have several advertising boards that i put up, when i am on a job. Leave them there for as long as i can, sometimes for months after i have finished the work, thats why i have several.

Also i agree about getting your van sign written free advertising! I leave my van parked on a main road on purpose when i can. I have easily recuperated what i have laid out having it done.


Simon

[sainty]

Just had a quick scan at my website, and agree that there are somethings that could be different, but it is definitely the lack of photographs that lets it down. I will have to try and get some together and uploaded.

Ok, registered with the local business listings, got google maps up and running so that's the web sorted (well it's a start!).

Now onto the printed press. What do people find most useful? Local Parish magazines or the higher circulation regional daily papers? Anyone had any joy from leaflet drops? Shop Windows? How about chasing the planning leads, these are easy to come by these days.

Paul, it's interesting what you say about selling rather than marketing. I think this is so true and something that I really have to work on. I know people that get work just by standing on the street! Seriously they engage total strangers in conversation and before you know it there mothers brothers next door neighbor needs something done, the business card comes out and he's off. Its quite a skill to watch. Having seen it in action, I now try to talk to people as they walk by, its surprising how many people want to talk, just need to take it a bit further and try to sell myself at the same time.


Rgds

Stu

[jfc]

Stu , i think you are looking at this the wrong way . You are looking at spending alot of money in ads rather than letting your work speak for itself for free . Boards out side a job are a good idea but i dont like them myself . I get people asking for my number while i am fitting a job and i can suss them out there and then rather than a time waster just getting your number .If they are interested they will be looking at your work while chatting to you . Also leaving your work out on the street always gets people asking for your number , unload the van and have a sarnie before you take it in to the job , people look and ask for your number .
Its all about food you see , chips and sarnies are my business plan ;D Now a chip sarnie ......... This time next year Rodney .....

[mrgrimsdale]

Sept 23, 2008 21:02:43 GMT Dave S said:

snip

I would say that 3 enquiries from an estimated 30 visits from people wanting a joiner is rather low and you should be looking to increase that conversion rate significantly.

You website should, however, be just one part of the marketing strategy - after all a good website is of limited use if potential customers don't use the internet much.

Dave

I'd say 3/30 is exceptionally unbelievably high! I get 1000s of views, and perhaps one in 10,000 job enquiries. More than enough. It's the total that counts.

cheers
Jacob

[jfc]

3 in 30 is very good but if the 27 are time wasters asking you to go round and chat for half a day then its not so good . This is why i have taken all details off my website and just leave it as a portfolio for customers that have already contacted me .

[mrgrimsdale]

Sept 23, 2008 22:38:35 GMT jfc said:

3 in 30 is very good but if the 27 are time wasters asking you to go round and chat for half a day then its not so good . This is why i have taken all details off my website and just leave it as a portfolio for customers that have already contacted me .

He's talking 3 enquiries to 30 web viewers or have I misunderstood?
Same with an ad, or van sign written - may be seen by 1000s but it's the total job enquiries which count.
The old cliche about ads and promotions, van, small ads, shop window notices,the works, is that only 5% of it works, but you never know which 5%

[sainty]

The 3 from 30 represents the people that have visited the site that I believe were looking for a joiner. They are people that have arrived at the site via a google search for something like "joiner southampton" or "bespoke bedroom furniture hampshire". So a return of 3 out of 30 is pretty disappointing. As has been said before, I think the lack of photos is probably turning people away.



Rgds


Stu